Question about hip turn

[ubizmo]

When we take the club back, should both hips turn (lead hip toward the read; trailing hip toward the target), or should the trailing hip act as the pivot point and the lead hip does the moving?

It seems to me that it should be the first way (both hips turn around the spine axis) but when I look at pro swing videos, that trailing hip doesn't seem to move much at all until the downswing.

[bill reed]

Re: Question about hip turn

hi todd
i think it the first way, swing around a fixed spine.
i think its because of the way they tense the inside of there right leg to stop there hips swaying back and to stop to much weight shifting onto there right foot.
also helps them push off the right foot when swinging down.
bill

[GoNavy]

Re: Question about hip turn

Actually, neither, one problem with new golfers is they actively try to turn the hips. What really happens is a reflex to weight shift. If you simply stand upright and move the weight to right, you will see the hips turns by them selfs, same thing when you move to the left. This is the action your looking for, has to do with the physical movement of the bodies structure. Actively turning the hips in the swing, causes major balance problems and can affect the swing path.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Question about hip turn

Golfone: can you give me a simple way to describe the hip bump to the left to start the downswing. I find I am already moving the left hip towards the target before I finish my backswing but I can't seem to explain how to do it to anyone else.

Right Hander:

Have your left arm straight in allignment with the straight shaft of the club, the hands are closer to the left leg, your triangle, shoulders, arms and hands are off center, you make a little lateral shift to the right, best to do at address and turn into your backswing and on the downswing you make the lateral shift back towards the target.

When you shift the weight back to the right, in the backswing the left hip is going to pop out and you are in the Reverse K Position.

Addressing the ball with the hands in the center of the stance, bump left hip out a little for your Reverse K Position, there is more of a turning of the hips.

This is why we have a little confusion on the hips because of the different actions by the way we address the ball.

Notice with the straight arm and shaft at address, when you make the lateral shift to the right you have put your shoulders, arms and hands back to center or in balance with each other.

[TeachingPro]

Re: Question about hip turn

Ubizmo,

Think about the turn of the hips this way:

> Your off-target hip is where the backswing "turns into". Your hip and knee is where the energy gets stored in the lower body.
> Although it turns, it doesn't turn very far - probably not more than 4 inches in rotation and about the same horizontally as your swing moves "off and away" from the golf ball. But, it depends on how much you move "away" from the ball.
> Now, the near-target hip has a fair way to turn with the target-side knee to get to a position near the ball, but even then it only moves a few inches.
> Bio-kinetically if your turn your one hip, the other has to move too. Try it - setup and try to turn just the one hip.

So ... to answer your question: the hips have to turn together and they turn around your spine. Your spine is the central point of your swing.

[ubizmo]

Re: Question about hip turn

Sigh...it's tricky. The thing that seems to work (but it's elusive) is when my right leg feels very still, but my left knee approaches it in the backswing. Obviously, my right leg isn't truly still, but it feels that way. Since I tend to have wooden hips anyway, if I try to turn them too much, I'll definitely get stuck. The way I swing, I have to make a point of trying to get everything going forward.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Question about hip turn

Ubizmo,

You know I am far less technical than most, but let me ask you this.

Me and you standing by a pond, and I say to you throw this stone as far as you can into the pond..................!!!

Q; would you think about where your hips are during your throw?.Not likely

Q; would you hips help propell the stone further? Yes of course

Why because they act naturally to help the body rotate back and through to fire the stone as far as possible.....................without thinking about them.

Food for thought.

Ian.

[TeachingPro]

Re: Question about hip turn

Sigh...it's tricky. The thing that seems to work (but it's elusive) is when my right leg feels very still, but my left knee approaches it in the backswing. Obviously, my right leg isn't truly still, but it feels that way. Since I tend to have wooden hips anyway, if I try to turn them too much, I'll definitely get stuck. The way I swing, I have to make a point of trying to get everything going forward.

It sounds technical and tricky, because we are taking physical movements and writing them down.

This is a "feel excercise" I developed a few years ago. Do this excercise and you'll see how easy it really is:

> Stand near a corner of a wall inside a room with the turn to your right if you are a right-hander. The wall to your right needs to be about 2 feet away.
> Imagine you're setting up to hit a golf ball, so get your feet setup in the correct position, tilt your spine, etc.
> Now put your hands up on the wall in front of you without changing your spine angle. Your hands should be about mid-chest height, depending on how much you normally lean over in your setup.
> Now turn your arms, chest, hips and left knee and touch the wall in the same way on your right

That's exactly what you have to do during the first half of your backswing. Your hips should be turned about 45*, your left knee should be just about where the golf ball is ... Once you get to this position in your backswing, your left arm should be parallel to the ground and the club pointing stright up to the sky. To complete your backswing, just carry on turning your shoulders to 90*.

Easy ... once you know how. (TM)

[bill reed]

Re: Question about hip turn

hi
with the hip turn and lateral shift it all had to do with the knees and feet, the flexed right knee pointing behind the ball through the back swing stops the hips swaying backwards and the left knee comes over more to meet the right knee and the left heal can lift a little. the left knee started the down swing by moving back to left and the right knee follows making the hips move slightly laterally to the left but the hips turn at the same time. its the legs and feet that make the hips move not the other way round. also with the movement of the knees to the left the weight shifts too. it is not something to think of doing as one thing makes the other happen without thinking. one of the best things to do is stand in from of a mirror and just swing back and forward and watch you hips and knees. when they work together you swing smoothly and easily and your swing looks good too. its also help to swing in front of a mirror like this and look at your tempo when using your feet and knees to control your swing. its amazing how quickly you get into a good rhythm.
give it a try and see what i mean, you dont have to use a full swing or even a golf club, i often do it at work, just have my hands on hips and use me knees and feet to let my hips turn, my shoulders seem to turn them self without me trying to make them.
bill

[pnearn]

Re: Question about hip turn

Actually, neither, one problem with new golfers is they actively try to turn the hips. What really happens is a reflex to weight shift. If you simply stand upright and move the weight to right, you will see the hips turns by them selfs, same thing when you move to the left. This is the action your looking for, has to do with the physical movement of the bodies structure. Actively turning the hips in the swing, causes major balance problems and can affect the swing path.

OK Im going to disagree but im sure its a personal thing

In my back swing I actively think about turning my hips along with my shoulders to absolutely ensure they turn and dont slide (turn in a barrel, right hip in back right pocket etc). Indeed I want to feel at the end of my BS that my left hip is pointing 45 degress right of the target line because from there I can shift my weight im exactly that direction (first base, 10 o'clock etc) and know Im dropping the club to the inside where I can then rotate my forearms through the ball - keeping my eyes focused on the inside quarter of the ball which is where I want to swing through

Jim Mclean has a real good article on this on GolfLink and I remember Shooting saying he did something similar http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/10537009-post8.html

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Question about hip turn

I'm still throwing stones me...............

try it and see what role your hips play, the golf swing is the same.

they should move a touch lateral then stop suddenly and resist the upper body turn, then fire through as you release the stone.

Ian.

[pgmetcalf]

Re: Question about hip turn

I don't know about anyone else but I don't think about turning on the backswing; I just concentrate on letting the body following the arms.

I'm more concerned with turning the hips on the downswing and letting the arms following naturally around.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Question about hip turn

This is a good explaination of the hips.

Ian.

[ubizmo]

Re: Question about hip turn

Me and you standing by a pond, and I say to you throw this stone as far as you can into the pond..................!!!

Q; would you think about where your hips are during your throw?.Not likely

Q; would you hips help propell the stone further? Yes of course

Why because they act naturally to help the body rotate back and through to fire the stone as far as possible.....................without thinking about them.

Food for thought.

Ian.

I think this is because I already know how to throw a stone effectively. I don't have to think about how to do it. If I didn't...you might have to tell me about how to move my hips etc. I have a son who can't really throw anything any distance. He simply has no instincts about how to do it. It is very difficult to teach a thing like that. I can sympathize with what golf instructors are up against when they have to work with people like me.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Question about hip turn

Get off Todd,

you can't be that bad.......................how did you learn to throw a stone.............let me guess you just kept doing it until it became easy.

All I am saying is 'do' the throwing the stone action a few times then focus on the hips, they work pretty much the same in the golf swing.

I bet your little lad could watch you for two minutes and then throw stones the same.

I am pretty basic thinking when it comes to Golf and I think it gets far to cloudy when we start talking about what parts of your body do, take driving a car for instance, we are at sixes and sevens for a while when we are learning........why.......................answer because we are thinking to much.

Look at how you drive now, assuming you do. You grip the steering wheel like you should grip your club and you perform all the requirements with little or mostly no thought............................do we all drive the same NO there are many variations but all do the same job.

How many Top Tour Pro's have the same backswing, Furyk, Jimineth (spelt wrong) Monty, Tiger, Pampling, Sabatini, all completley different yet they all play beautiful golf.

The difference is they all learn to hit the ball, regardless of where there body part are.

Difficult to explain but I hope it helps you to understand where I come from.

Ian.