Wrist Cock ?????

[BrianW]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

So Brian ... with your wrist concept it would be next to impossible for the shaft to be parallel to the ground at the top of the backswing right?

Does that matter?

Back to the issue of wrist cock. Take a club at address, now without lifting your arms hinge your wrists upwards as far as you can, you probably managed a lift of around 15 degrees, another test is to let your arms hang down and form a fist with both hands, see how far you can turn up your wrists, again very little. How much power will this movement create? Also the movement is working at right angles to the direction of the clubface in the downswing, it would be useful if you were using the clubface to drive the ball straight down into the ground but you are not.

Whether you cock the club up and down does not matter much other than the more you hinge it up the more adjustment you have to make to get it back down on plane at impact. The power source in the hands is the wrist hinge not the wrist cock, hinging driven by body rotation whips the clubface through the ball creating clubhead speed.

[Neil18]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

Does that matter?

Back to the issue of wrist cock. Take a club at address, now without lifting your arms hinge your wrists upwards as far as you can, you probably managed a lift of around 15 degrees, another test is to let your arms hang down and form a fist with both hands, see how far you can turn up your wrists, again very little. How much power will this movement create? Also the movement is working at right angles to the direction of the clubface in the downswing, it would be useful if you were using the clubface to drive the ball straight down into the ground but you are not.

Whether you cock the club up and down does not matter much other than the more you hinge it up the more adjustment you have to make to get it back down on plane at impact. The power source in the hands is the wrist hinge not the wrist cock, hinging driven by body rotation whips the clubface through the ball creating clubhead speed.

Headache gone, penny drops.

You're advocating wrist hinge, not wrist cock. Covered well in another thread by Avid (not wishing to take away your valued input in this thread. Merely a cross-reference!)

Without going back over it I think I stated that cocking up and down for me leads to a cupped left wrist and weak slappy ones.

So, in summary, I concur Brian.

[Started2k3]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

I am being thick again. I can't tell what the difference is between these two terms. Please fill in the blanks:

Wrist hinge is ....

Wrist cock is ...

[Started2k3]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

My confusion could stem from:

I demand in my swing a "flat left wrist" which leaves only 1 motion for my wrist. Keep in mind that humans, unlike gibbons, have only two motions available for the wrists. The hand and wrist only rotate because the forearm bones allow this motion between the elbow and wrist.

Also are you talking about the left or right wrist? My left wrist only goes up and down. My right wrist motion is only a rotation caused by my forearm, and the wrist itself does not swat or go up or down.

[Neil18]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

I am being thick again. I can't tell what the difference is between these two terms. Please fill in the blanks:

Wrist hinge is ....

Wrist cock is ...

In my book (as we love interpretation in this game!) hinge refers more to the right wrist bending back toward the right forearm allowing for a flat left rist.

Wrist cock is both wrists bending back towards you, normally leading to a slight cup in the left wrist.

[kbp]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

Relative to the right wrist:
Wrist hinge is folding the back of hand toward the top of forearm and vice versa. Hold your right arm out with the palm facing the ground. Use your wrist to lift your fingertips straight up like your gesturing for someone to stop. This is wrist HINGING. While in this fingertips up, hinged position, pretend you are grabbing a door knob and turning it counter-clockwise. This is wrist COCKING. This combination of hinging and cocking is the motion you want in the backswing, IMO.

Does that matter?
Back to the issue of wrist cock. Take a club at address, now without lifting your arms hinge your wrists upwards as far as you can, you probably managed a lift of around 15 degrees, another test is to let your arms hang down and form a fist with both hands, see how far you can turn up your wrists, again very little. How much power will this movement create? Also the movement is working at right angles to the direction of the clubface in the downswing, it would be useful if you were using the clubface to drive the ball straight down into the ground but you are not.
Whether you cock the club up and down does not matter much other than the more you hinge it up the more adjustment you have to make to get it back down on plane at impact. The power source in the hands is the wrist hinge not the wrist cock, hinging driven by body rotation whips the clubface through the ball creating clubhead speed.

Again, the clubface and the cocking action is only perpendicular to the target line at address. Most of the time it is parallel to the plane. The cocking action is along the plane from the top of the swing, down to the release, and right up until the hands are squared at impact. The key is to set the wrists so that the cocking action occurs on plane and therefore CAN’T force the club off plane. The hinge and the cock are necessary for maximum speed. However, the hinge is more of a directional tool to allow the cocking action to occur on plane and but still get the club back to square as the speed of the cock is released.

By allowing right wrist to fold back to the tray and the left wrist to flatten, the, "floppy" wrists are firmed up and the cocking motion is set on plane rather than perpendicular to the plane. The flat left wrist and the bent back right wrist lie basically "on plane" at the top and down to the waist high release point. The wrist cock is set "on plane", maintained "on plane", and released "on plane". As the club catches up to the hands at impact, the momentum from this release is already directed down the target line because the back of the wrists are still basically parallel to the plane. Just before impact, we are merely allowing the club face and the wrists to rotate back square or we are deliberately square them. In squaring the wrists, the momentum starts to pull the cup out of the right wrist. At this point the wrists are unhinging as they finish uncocking.

Go to the top of the swing in the classic position, flat left wrist, "tray" right wrist, 90 degrees between shaft and left forearm, both "on plane". Now turn the right wrist as if turning a door knob. The club should move basically on plane. (Yes, that’s casting, but it illustrates that the "up and down" cocking is actually on plane.) Drop the hands and shaft on plane to waist high and make the same "doorknob turning". The club should basically move on plane.

Without some the hinge, we can’t be on plane. Without some cocking we CAN be on plane, but we have given up one of our "on plane" levers and thus have given up speed.

[Started2k3]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

Relative to the right wrist:
Wrist hinge is folding the back of hand toward the top of forearm and vice versa. Hold your right arm out with the palm facing the ground. Use your wrist to lift your fingertips straight up like your gesturing for someone to stop. This is wrist HINGING. While in this fingertips up, hinged position, pretend you are grabbing a door knob and turning it counter-clockwise. This is wrist COCKING. This combination of hinging and cocking is the motion you want in the backswing, IMO.

OK I am on the same page as you. They are separate motions.

Neil18's definition of wrist cock blended your definitions of COCKING and HINGING. Which I disagree with.

Again, the clubface and the cocking action is only perpendicular to the target line at address. Most of the time it is parallel to the plane. The cocking action is along the plane from the top of the swing, down to the release, and right up until the hands are squared at impact. The key is to set the wrists so that the cocking action occurs on plane and therefore CAN’T force the club off plane. The hinge and the cock are necessary for maximum speed. However, the hinge is more of a directional tool to allow the cocking action to occur on plane and but still get the club back to square as the speed of the cock is released.

By allowing right wrist to fold back to the tray and the left wrist to flatten, the, "floppy" wrists are firmed up and the cocking motion is set on plane rather than perpendicular to the plane. The flat left wrist and the bent back right wrist lie basically "on plane" at the top and down to the waist high release point. The wrist cock is set "on plane", maintained "on plane", and released "on plane". As the club catches up to the hands at impact, the momentum from this release is already directed down the target line because the back of the wrists are still basically parallel to the plane. Just before impact, we are merely allowing the club face and the wrists to rotate back square or we are deliberately square them. In squaring the wrists, the momentum starts to pull the cup out of the right wrist. At this point the wrists are unhinging as they finish uncocking.

Go to the top of the swing in the classic position, flat left wrist, "tray" right wrist, 90 degrees between shaft and left forearm, both "on plane". Now turn the right wrist as if turning a door knob. The club should move basically on plane. (Yes, that’s casting, but it illustrates that the "up and down" cocking is actually on plane.) Drop the hands and shaft on plane to waist high and make the same "doorknob turning". The club should basically move on plane.

Without some the hinge, we can’t be on plane. Without some cocking we CAN be on plane, but we have given up one of our "on plane" levers and thus have given up speed.

Thank god for eloquent writers. I agree with you kbp.

[ben hogan]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

[BrianW]

Re: Wrist Cock ?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IdHm-r8Xnk

Interesting but not what my OP was referring to.