How-To "Backspin on chips"

[GreeBoman]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Cheers Bill, appreciate your reply.
The absolute final point I will make is that the ball and the club are vital. The things I can do with a prov1 and either a Titleist Vokey or Taylormade y-cut wedges are silly.
I cant get close to the same stop on chips with my trusty old 60% Ping.

[bill reed]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

hi GreeBoman
i was put onto SMT durameter wedges by Lowpost and they put so much spin on the ball and were great wedges. but i found they the did mark up the ball a lot and left them scuffed as the milled face seemed to cut into the ball a lot.
i also found i got to much backspin and found it hard to control how far the ball spun back some times it would spin back about 20 feet.
i swapped then for for a ping 60 and 56 degree wedges and i don't get as much back-spin but its more controllably.
i do miss the shocked look on your playing partner when you pitched 15 feet past the hole and it spins back about 10 feet.
if you want a wedge that really puts spin on a ball the SMT durameter is the club you want.
cheers
bill

[GreeBoman]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Thanks Bill, I will take a look at them!

[BrianW]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

here is a nice video showing how a ball is contacted in a good hit:

[BrianW]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

i didn't see the ball being "pinched" into the ground at all

As I have been saying it isn't. You cannot even see the grass being deformed.

[Yggdrasil]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Wow, what a discussion.

I'm afraid my heart and mind go with Mox on this. My mind tells me that there must be downward pressure on the ball, before it starts spinning. No ball goes from 0 to 5000rpm in a fraction of a second without experiencing some pretty strong resistance to that force, and Mox nails it in my mind that the ball will obviously start going the same direction as the clubhead is moving, until the ball starts spinning.

My heart also tells me that if you hit down, you get more spin. If you are in the rough, less spin, and the fairway will get you more. Wet grass, less spin, hardpan more spin. All down to pinching. All as Mox says.

And you see the pros taking huge divots, because they are hitting down on the ball.

My chips? Yes, given a prov1, and fairway (not rough), trying to hit down on the ball (actually getting my hands ahead of the ball, then "pinching down"), I get a pretty controlled chip, that stops predictably. The problem is, given rain and rough and so many factors, it seem better to practice running the ball with little backspin - a shot I can always use, even though the distance control may not be as good. The pros have more use for the backspin chip than I do, I think...

However, this has helped my pitches tremendously! I got my first "2-passes at the hole" pitch last weekend (bounced past the pin, then spun back past the hole again). It didn't go in, but man, were the guys impressed....

Remember in this forum, like on the course, the guy that has the most fun wins. Second is being right...

[BrianW]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Wow, what a discussion.

I'm afraid my heart and mind go with Mox on this. My mind tells me that there must be downward pressure on the ball, before it starts spinning. No ball goes from 0 to 5000rpm in a fraction of a second without experiencing some pretty strong resistance to that force, and Mox nails it in my mind that the ball will obviously start going the same direction as the clubhead is moving, until the ball starts spinning.

My heart also tells me that if you hit down, you get more spin. If you are in the rough, less spin, and the fairway will get you more. Wet grass, less spin, hardpan more spin. All down to pinching. All as Mox says.

And you see the pros taking huge divots, because they are hitting down on the ball.

My chips? Yes, given a prov1, and fairway (not rough), trying to hit down on the ball (actually getting my hands ahead of the ball, then "pinching down"), I get a pretty controlled chip, that stops predictably. The problem is, given rain and rough and so many factors, it seem better to practice running the ball with little backspin - a shot I can always use, even though the distance control may not be as good. The pros have more use for the backspin chip than I do, I think...

However, this has helped my pitches tremendously! I got my first "2-passes at the hole" pitch last weekend (bounced past the pin, then spun back past the hole again). It didn't go in, but man, were the guys impressed....

Remember in this forum, like on the course, the guy that has the most fun wins. Second is being right...

You hit the ball then you hit the ground, that's how you take divots and they should be in front of the ball. Look again at the video, can you can see that ball getting trapped into the turf? Of course there is some great resistance to the ball, the club strikes it with around 3,000 pounds of force and a lofted face, the ball deforms, sticks to the face then slides and rolls up it due to loft.

Anyhow, as I have said before, if it helps you to think the ball is trapped in the turf then that's fine.

[Yggdrasil]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Yeah, I agree, I don't see any downward motion at all on the videos. But the club does never appears to be striking down on the ball, either. No divot, or T is used.

But what I am saying is if;
1) The club is striking down,
2) You could put a scale under the ball,

then
3) That scale would measure off the scale (hmmm, synonyms in play) at moment of strike, i.e. Lots of downward pressure.

Another thing that makes me believe it's pinching, is that i read an article about Tiger Woods - that he would hit balls 10-20m too far, because he would "pinch" the ball so hard against the ground that the shaft bent, effectively de-lofting the club.

How could you explain Woods bending the shaft otherwise? Certainly not hitting the ground first?

[BrianW]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Yeah, I agree, I don't see any downward motion at all on the videos. But the club does never appears to be striking down on the ball, either. No divot, or T is used.

What do you mean no divot? cant you see all that grass flying in the air, that was caused by the club hitting the ground in front of the ball making a divot. You are correct, there is no downward motion at impact, that's the point! the clubface contacts the bottom quadrant of the ball, not the top. THE BALL IS NEVER EVER HIT DOWNWARDS INTO THE GROUND.

[Yggdrasil]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

I certainly agree from the video - it seems to me that he hit down on the ball, too - that there was no downward force.

But it was teed up (again), and if there was grass in front of the ball, wouldn't it pinch at that club speed? Why no slo-mo of a ball off the fairway?

Maybe the players are just talking about striking the ball so well that they feel the ground and the ball at the same time, and the "pinch" is just a feeling they have? It still doesn't make sense, talking about gettting hands forward, hitting down and pinching the ball. Or maybe it does. I certainly feel like I'm pinching the ball when I get a good strike, but maybe I'm just hitting that sweet spot, ball and ground at the same instance.

Maybe that's what pinching is: just hitting the ball so close to the same time as the ground, that your senses can't tell the difference, and that unique feeling is best described as "pinching the ball"....

[AussieGolfBoy]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

have a look at that video more so for the "Triangle" explanation he uses for his setup. you mentioned that you were blading the ball. well i can guarantee you your probably swinging out to in.

http://www.youtube.com/user/golfmonthly
http://www.youtube.com/user/golf

they are 2 youtube links that must have well over 100 videos on each with many free quick lessons.

hope this helps.

[AussieGolfBoy]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

yeah. that bit looked a bit odd too the way he was hitting the ball.

but as per my other post, his "triangle" point of view gets the message across of shifting your weight towards the target.

thats the bit to focus on. sorry for any confusion

[Yggdrasil]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Doesn't this just start up the whole backspin "ball being driven into the ground" discussion?

Looks to me like we have a video of the ball being "pinched" down to create spin.....

???????????????

[BrianW]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

Yggdrasil,

The guy in this video does not know what he is talking about regarding ball contact. He wont be able to show you a video of a ball being contacted the way he says.

Just because he teaches people does not mean he has a correct grasp of the the way a golf ball is contacted, in fact what he is suggesting would create horrible shots.

I am a Chartered Engineer and have a good working knowledge of ballistic science and mechanics. I have read and studied the physics of how a golf ball reacts at impact and pinching the ball into the ground to make it spin up the clubface IMO is a complete myth.

Just look again at the video I showed you, stop it at the point of impact and see if it bears any resemblance to this guys explanation.

[bahamaman]

Re: How-To "Backspin on chips"

sounds good