Shortgame IS more important

[pnearn]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

Great thread. You can see from the long game instruction thread here that most newcomers to the game only ever practice their long games and I was that 15hcp with a solid long game and inconsistent short game

I read an article by Jim Mclean who said statistically a round of golf is 30% log game, 30% chips/pitches and 30% putting. The other 10% is mental. However I used to spend 90% of my practice time on the long game

I was therefore that 15 hcper who could have been ( and now is ) playing off 7. So a year ago I went to the range and practiced distance wedges, chips, high lobs, bump and runs, you name it, with only a PW and SW and now when I stand over these shots I have a far better idea of what I can do. Its still very much a learning and experience curve but I wholeheartedly agree with almost everything thats been written here

[resqme269]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

Shootin4par -
You're probably right. Whatever's your worst aspect of the game is probably the most important to practice (but don't neglect your other game either) since that is where you will add the most strokes to your game. I guess I should have said at least for me the short game is the most important. I played with a couple of older gentlemen the other day who could putt somewhat decent, but the rest of their game was horrid. If they could correct that they might be able to break 100.

[peter3]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

When you start with golf, you need to learn how to swing and how to hit the ball, so it is natural to concentrate on the long game when practicing.

Once you're a bit better and can hit decent shots that mostly land near the fairway, a good short game is the best way to shave strokes off your game.

If you can keep the ball in play (no OB, no water etc), hitting it further will not save as many strokes as hitting it more accurately (this includes putting).

I'm a 9 with a decent short game. With a lesser, I'd probably be about a 15. With a better, I could probably be a 4.

[vp27519]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

Too right it is important - one needs to have great imagination and creativity. Especially in my case - only hit five fairways on average.

[mariner]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

The whole game is important. If you cant keep the ball in bounds you cant score, period!!!. If you put yourself in impossible situations on approach shots then you cannot get up and down to save par!!! If you cannot chip then you will not get up and down, once again ruining the score!!! If you cannot lag putt and putt six footers, you cant score!!! The whole game matters so the most important aspect to practice is the one YOU are the worst at.

Yeah, but the short game is MORE important.

[mr3856a]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

I've heard that said but still I and probably alot of beginners still focus more on practicing full shots.

Last week I hit 12 GIR and got 10 pars and because of an 11 on one hole I finished on +17. Today I only hit 3 GIR yet got 11 pars and got my best score so far of +11 which included 2 triple bogeys.

My chipping and putting were so ON that it didn't matter where my full shots were going.

Just thought I'd say this as I realise that aslong as you aren't hitting slices/hooks you're still capable of good scores if you practice your chipping and putting.

Ditto here. If I hit a green in regulation, great. But really all I'm trying to do is beat it up near the green in regulation and then get up and down.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

2 putts make par on any hole. 36 putts make par on any course. The short game is not that important once you understand this.

On any score, count your putts, if you make less than 36, you should be scoring under par. If you make over par with 36 putts or less, the short game is not what you should be practicing.

Here's an example of what I mean. Scoring 84 (par 72) with only 24 putts means you wasted at least 20 strokes off the green. 24 putts is 8 under par yet you scored 84, 12 over par. Had you made 36 putts, you'd have scored 92. Had you not wasted 20 shots off the green while making only 24 putts, you'd have scored 64.

Par is the only thing you can save with one putt. Anything over par is not a save, it's a bad score no matter how many putts you make.

You can either look at it from a save perspective or from a waste perspective.

How many strokes can you save compared to how many strokes can you waste? Compare your green strokes save/waste to your off green strokes save/waste. You'll soon realize that you can waste many more strokes off the green than you can save on the green.

Back to the example.

84 (par 72) with 24 putts
Waste off green: +20
Save on green: -8
Net: +12

The short game emphasis is on saving strokes when instead you should be focusing on preventing wasted strokes off the green. Excellent putting can only save you 18 strokes maximum. Excellent ball striking can prevent wasting as many strokes as you currently waste. No waste off the green means any stroke saved on the green is a stroke under par.

Compare to my best score to date.

89 (par 71) with 36 putts
Waste off green: +18
Save on green: 0
Net: +18

Continuing to practice reducing waste will eventually result in par with 36 putts. At that point, I'll focus on saving strokes on the green. Until then, I focus on preventing waste off the green.


ML

[LowPost42]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

Of those 18 wasted off the green - were they all from outside 100 yards? In other words, if you missed a green (waste off green), you chipped on an two putted?

[peter3]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

2 putts make par on any hole. 36 putts make par on any course. The short game is not that important once you understand this.

You assume that short game is putting only. It is not. Short game is mostly defined as all strokes within 100 yards from the hole. If you assume that many of the wasted strokes that you are talking about are inside 100 yards, the claim that short game is more important still holds true.

Nice breakdown, though.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

I define the short game as putts + the strokes used to recover from wasted strokes off the green with intent to land on the green in regulation. I define it this way because in everything I've read about the short game, that's what it's mostly used for: Recovery.

Regardless of distance from the green, the approach shot determines if the short game is used or not on the next shot. The approach shot is the stroke used to land on the green in regulation. A miss requires recovery with the short game, GIR does not. Even if putts are part of the short game, it still takes two putts to make par on any hole so I don't count the second putt as a recovery shot on GIR but I do count the first putt as a recovery shot if that putt is required to save par.

It's the difference between making par and saving par. It's the difference between improving two parts of the game (putting and chipping/pitching/whatnot) and only one part of the game (full swing long shots).

If you have trouble with the driver, don't use it. If you have trouble with making par, aim for bogie with two putts. It's much easier to get on the green in 3 on a 450 yards par 4: 3 x 150 yards. If you have trouble with long irons, carry only the few clubs you are comfortable with. I usually carry only 6 clubs (DR-5i-6i-7i-8i-PU) and I made that 89 with those same clubs. In fact, I frequently use the 5i to drive on shorter par 4's.

Instead of practicing all kinds of different distances, practice only a few but practice them a lot. Instead of practicing with all your clubs, practice only with a few but practice them a lot. It's easier to choose a club when you have only a few to choose from anyway. Instead of using any club to get out of the rough, use a dedicated club every time to recover. I use the 7i.

When you want to determine which club to use for any hole, divide the distance by strokes required for GIR. If you cant make that distance with any club in your bag, divide it by one more stroke. For example, 450 yards par 4. 450 / 2 = 225 yards. If you have no club in your bag you can do 225 yards with, divide 450 by 3. Analyze the course you're playing on and do that for every hole. Figure out which distances you can do with the clubs you are most comfortable with and practice with those clubs only. Then when you play, bring only those clubs. Plan ahead and stick to your plan.

If you normally score over 100, you'll be able to score much lower just by playing with fewer clubs and dividing hole distances by one more stroke.

I'm 37, I started playing in september '04. I scored that 89 on my 45th game about 8 months later.

The short game is not that important when the long game is where you waste most shots. Or, it becomes more important than anything else if you rely on it to recover from all that waste off the green. But there's only so much you can save. It's like a magic pill that you can only take so many times before it kills you.

I focus on eliminating waste before I even think of recovering from it.


ML

[mariner]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

But 75% of shots are made within 100 yds of the green - what most people term short game range?
And I`ve never gone along with the philosophy of deliberately leaving yourself 100 or 150 yards on a long par 4 or par 5 if you can`t reach with a full 3 wood 2nd shot - that`s OK for good players but not for 85 - 100 shooters, by definition they are not going to have a reliable 100/150 yard shot, so get as close as possible then you are less likely to miss the green (always assuming you are not trying to carry water or OB)

[Started2k3]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

But 75% of shots are made within 100 yds of the green - what most people term short game range?
And I`ve never gone along with the philosophy of deliberately leaving yourself 100 or 150 yards on a long par 4 or par 5 if you can`t reach with a full 3 wood 2nd shot - that`s OK for good players but not for 85 - 100 shooters, by definition they are not going to have a reliable 100/150 yard shot, so get as close as possible then you are less likely to miss the green (always assuming you are not trying to carry water or OB)

To be at 75% of all the shots means that all your tee shots get you within 100yds on every hole. If this was the case then you should be shooting well under 72. But notice that 25% of 72 is 18, so a score under 72 should be impossible with this rate. A bogey player (one extra stroke per hole - within 100yds), will only be at 60% within 100yds.

I think 75% is greatly exagerated for a stroke player and bogey player.

Sorry, but the math seemed impossible to me. Infact the player would have to score a wopping 144 - broken down into 36 strokes to get near the green, 36 putts, and 72 short game strokes. If this was the case then this player had better work hard on their short game.

[mariner]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

OK, 75% is too much, I admit that, but my point is that a good short game gets you down in twos and threes from 100 yards and a bad one gets you down in fours and even fives.
It`s interesting that you go with this theory though, pretty much contrary to what everybody else has always said - I guess "opinion is divided" to quote Blackadder.
We would all like long accurate drives and accurate approaches that hit all the greens in reg, but for the vast majority of players that`s just not attainable so we have to live with the fact that we`re going to miss a lot of greens and the only way to score from there is by chipping close and one-putting.
I made this my target for practice last summer and my average came down from 92 to 84 and it was ALL short game.
This summer I`m going to work on the same things but I recognise that I`ve got to hit a lot more G.I.R so the full swing will get some time as well.

[mariner]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

Here's an example of what I mean. Scoring 84 (par 72) with only 24 putts means you wasted at least 20 strokes off the green. 24 putts is 8 under par yet you scored 84, 12 over par. Had you made 36 putts, you'd have scored 92. Had you not wasted 20 shots off the green while making only 24 putts, you'd have scored 64.

There`s something wrong here - if you only take 24 putts in a round it will probably be because you`ve just missed the green and then chipped close enough to one-putt on several occaisions - you can`t assume 24 putts as a given if you don`t waste any other shots.
If you hit greens in regulation you are`nt going to take 24 putts

[Allen Drummond]

Re: Shortgame IS more important

I define the short game as putts + the strokes used to recover from wasted strokes off the green with intent to land on the green in regulation. I define it this way because in everything I've read about the short game, that's what it's mostly used for: Recovery.

ML

You actually agree but insist on stating it your own way. You agree that the approach shot is very important but don't define this as short game. In my reading most of your approach shots are the short game.
In any event, using your definition:
The very best tour pros average 7% error left or right from 150 yards out. Typical is closer to 10%. So the very best average error left or right is 10 yards. The average mortal is near 20%. That puts most of us just as likely to miss the green from this distance as make it. If you have a real good short (recovery) game then you will one put more often to save par.
Work as you will, it is not likely that you will improve the approach shot to the levels required to not have an excellent short game.
Closer to 100 yards out the pros get extremely accurate left and right due to the loft of the club. At this point distance control becomes of utmost importance.
Have you read Dave Pelz short game? You should. It is very enlightening.