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**chessbum** · 10-16-2006, 09:53 AM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Very good question?

Come on, Greg Willis, intepret this for us.

Chessbum...

**BrianW** · 10-16-2006, 12:09 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Hi Ian,

I cant understand how this works? I read many threads regarding cupping of the wrists and they all confuse me.

I think the wrists should be in the same alignment at impact as the were at address, I fail to understand this guys theory on cupping the left wrist in relation to creating additional lag release. I do promote a "Puck Release" method that allows the right wrist to push under the left through impact thus creating additional head speed.

With the greatest respect to Greg on this site I also cannot understand his Right Hand Drill, It sounds as if it promotes the shoulders to be rotated towards the target at impact with the right wrist hinged back to compensate. I accept that I may be misunderstanding this and would be happy if someone could assist me with it as many others are saying it helps them.

**Ian Hancock** · 10-16-2006, 12:19 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Hi Brian,

I am glad it is not just me, a cupped left wrist is a definate no,no...........open face at impact, he is also promoting flipping the wrists at impact.......................he's mad in my opinion.

As you say the left wrist must be flat at impact, a straight line down the left arm, straight wrist straight shaft.i.e on straight line, the right hand should be cupped at impact like Greg promotes, then releases after impact.

Greg's right hand drill is based on a standard impact drill, i.e if you had an impact bag your shoulders would be opening up as the right arm in a straight line with the shaft comes into impact, the right wrist must remain cupped until the split second after impact.

I would suggest there is only 3% of golfers that ever achieve this position and they are on the two main tours.

Ian.

**BrianW** · 10-16-2006, 12:45 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Originally posted by Ian Hancock

Hi Brian,

I am glad it is not just me, a cupped left wrist is a definate no,no...........open face at impact, he is also promoting flipping the wrists at impact.......................he's mad in my opinion.

As you say the left wrist must be flat at impact, a straight line down the left arm, straight wrist straight shaft.i.e on straight line, the right hand should be cupped at impact like Greg promotes, then releases after impact.

Greg's right hand drill is based on a standard impact drill, i.e if you had an impact bag your shoulders would be opening up as the right arm in a straight line with the shaft comes into impact, the right wrist must remain cupped until the split second after impact.

I would suggest there is only 3% of golfers that ever achieve this position and they are on the two main tours.

Ian.

Thanks Ian, I think I follow that about the right hand drill, I will ponder on it a bit.

I don't promote flipping of the wrists or scooping the ball but the Puck Release does push the club forward through the ball at impact, you must have achieved a good weight shift and downswing to use it though.

**Ian Hancock** · 10-16-2006, 01:33 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Brian,

One thing and a good idea I liked about the club he used with the colours either side to show if the club is open or closed, could be very good for normal teaching.

Ian.

**LowPost42** · 10-16-2006, 02:07 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

It makes sense to me. A while back, BrianW posted a link to the ritson-sole website, where they talked about cupping vs flat wrist. In the ritson-sole video, he stated that a strong grip needs cupping, while a neutral-to-weak grip needs a flat wrist.

So lets assume AJ needs a strong grip to go with his cup.

The thing that he's trying to do is to whip the clubface through impact... it seems like it's a real timing-based swing. It reminds me of Greg's 'swatting' reference - great if you can time it, brutal if you can't.

The other 'theoretical' point that AJ DOESN'T discuss, is that if cupping the wrist opens the face, then having it flat at impact must close it, right?

**GregJWillis** · 10-16-2006, 04:42 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

This is the thread I found where we talked about this link:
http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...ighlight=Bonar

**slf** · 10-16-2006, 04:55 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

it sounds mad! but there is one why to find out, lets try it and let eachother know how we got on.

**Started2k3** · 10-16-2006, 05:06 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

If you watch the end of the video carefully he proposes that the left wrist be cupped, but he does show (but doesn't say) that the wrist flattens through impact. Which is truly the important part of the flat left wrist part of the golf swing.

**frosty1s** · 10-16-2006, 06:50 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

I bought his video series and my impression was that if I could time my hands like he does I would never need another lesson, video etc. He hits balls standing on the right leg, standing on the left leg, falling backwards, all the while telling us it is easy if you hit the "little home run". Easy for him maybe, not for me.

**BrianW** · 10-17-2006, 08:19 AM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Originally posted by frosty1s

I bought his video series and my impression was that if I could time my hands like he does I would never need another lesson, video etc. He hits balls standing on the right leg, standing on the left leg, falling backwards, all the while telling us it is easy if you hit the "little home run". Easy for him maybe, not for me.

I just don't follow the logic of it! If you cup your left wrist backwards in the backswing removing the cupping will push the shaft to the right. How does this give a "little run home"???

**Ian Hancock** · 10-17-2006, 09:18 AM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

I agree with Brian, here....................I just don't get it at all, if you cup the left wrist anywhere in the swing it causes inconsistances..........

Cupped left wrist.

Full swing---------- open face / across the line at the top / swatting the ball.

Chip--------------- Shank/ or scooping

As for hitting the ball on one leg.................what's the point, yes you can do it but will it help you to be a better player............no...trick shot artist maybe.

The funniest thing about this is if you pause the swing he actually does at the end, he doesn't have a cupped wrist at the top and he certainly doesn't at impact, his wrist it is as flat as a kipper a straight line at impact.

Ian.

**slf** · 10-17-2006, 06:51 PM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

tried it today, very hard to know if I was doing the "magic move" or correcting my wrists at impact but didn't make any difference in distance, sliced a few!

**BrianW** · 10-18-2006, 08:50 AM

Re: This guy is mad? you decide.

Originally posted by cmays

Remember Hogan and many others used this type of action. It was Byrd from Montgomery,Alabama that taught Hogan this.

You can have the lead wrist to control release, the clubhead moving out in front of the hands or the back wrist and there is a way of using both, I will not cover that.

Yes when you swing back in the backswing it opens the clubface. Swing down in a upright manor, sternum facing ball at impact the clubface remains open.

To close the clubace we must rotate eithe the hands, or arms or wrist or all before impact. To rotate down, you must have rotated something back in the backswing to rotate down. Problem sloved.

In the rounded swing the same action happens in the backswing, the club face is open, on the downswing a rounded or laid off golfer rotates the shoulders around as Hogan. Problem Solved.

There is a 3rd way, sorry, that is part of my bread and butter.

Rotation is Rotation in the swing no matter where it comes from. To turn around and axis, the lead shoulder can be an axis, the body and etc.

This is where instruction has failed, telling you not to do something like the lead wrist hinge in the backswing and not teaching you how to use it. Most of this failure throughout the years have come from upright swingers. They can not do, they can not understood so they teach it can not be done. To be fair, now that people are teaching rotation in the swing we are seeing the same comments from them. No istructors, it can not be done from a rounded swing, but it fits into the upright swing.

I teach the Bar Stool Method of address to many golfers, Jack Nicklaus calls it the At Ease Position and you allow the upper shoulders to drop, the spine remains straight, the knees bend. Others I will teach the hip bend, butt out with the cup in the back, in fact I expose them to both.

Some Golf Guru sat down on the bar stool and bent down from the hips and said this method is no good. Something he did not want to turn to for help and it was easier to say; "It Can Not Be Done."

The two basic swings are not the same, a good example is sternum at the ball at impact and sternum continues to turn around before impact and in one you have more lateral motion to return to the ball and in the other it is more rotation to get behind the ball allowing the back tricep to function. In the upright swing it is the lead tricep that take the blow.

Dear Cmays,

That is very interesting but for me does not give a clear reply to the original question. How can a large cup in the left wrist increase distance by creating a "Little run home"

I am not being sarcastic here, I genuinely don't understand what Bonner is promoting with this action, to me it is a sure way of introducing flaws. I can understand a slight cupping in line with a strong grip will work in squaring the face but that's all.

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