Re: Three Truths in Golf

Jeez.... Guy checked EVERY one of my irons with me present. PW-4i were all 1 to 1-1/2* upright. He said I should be standard.

My freaking black dot Ping wedge (black dot = standard lie angle) was 2* flat! No wonder I have been hitting it 20 feet right every time!

$40 for 2 new grips and all of my clubs adjusted.

Thanks for the post Brian, just never thought about having that done. God I am such a newb sometimes

Re: Three Truths in Golf

The one that is fit to you, for starters. Materials and their composition are another good indicator.

Superior how?

You would know by the name. Acer, Oxygen, Title Tour, some Integra stuff, any brand you can buy at Custom Golf Clubs by Pinemeadow, it's all clone (read: cheap stuff).

Wishon, Bang, Ashton, SMT, some Integra stuff, Geek, Nakashima, Eidolon, Infiniti, Alpha, Purefit, Innovex - all good component companies. Even your Maltby, Toski, SnakeEyes, Killer Bee, Golfworks and Golfsmith stuff is good.

I could probably do a cheap set of irons for about 300, plus the cost of fitting.

That would be some older model heads, cheap shafts and grips - all components new. An 'average' set would run more like 400 or 500 - last years heads with a better shaft (like Rifle or TT Dynamic Gold). This years' model, with much better shafts (like TT Black Gold or Rifle Flighted) would run between 600 and 800, depending on what you wanted; and the cost of fitting is above and beyond that. (Another $100 or so).

So, you can get quality components - that fit - for far less than a set of off-the-rack Mizunos, or Callaways, or Titleists.

Where it really shines is in the world of drivers.

An R7 425 TP is $900. Even the burner is $400.

A quality current model head with a cheap shaft will be less than $200. (All components new). A quality current model head with a quality shaft will be less than $350. (Unless you want the AccuFLEX Creation shaft - that starts at $400 USD)

I guess it all boils down to this:

If you want your clubs to flat out perform and you're cheap, you buy well-fitted components.

If you want your clubs to flat out perform and money is no object, you buy OEMs and get them retrofitted to you (With Matrix Ozik shafts - you know, the $1000 shaft :O)

If you want to play what the pros play, you get good enough to get on a tour, and get sponsored. If you haven't figured out by now that just because you play Cleveland, you're not swinging Vijay's driver (with it's 4° open face), then you might as well learn it now. His driver is custom fitted for him. Your driver (off the rack)is custom fitted for a man with a wrist to floor measurement of 40" and a 120 mph swingspeed. The average amateur wouldn't be able to keep Vijay's driver on the golf course.

Sorry for getting on my soapbox a little... but either you'll fit your swing to your clubs, or your clubs to your swing.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

Hi Ben,

I agree absolutely with you on the advantages of club fitting, I am not sure about Pinemeadow clubs though. I have seen some of their stuff around and it looks like good value stuff to me, maybe not quite Ping or Mizuno but not bad, there is a darn site worse on the market.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

Don't get me wrong - Pinemeadow does a decent job of fitting (I don't know that I could necessarily do a better job with the same information they gather). But the stuff they put out is clones - and they freely admit it. They try and dress it up a bit (comparing themselves to PC clones, and automakers, stating that carmakers 'clone' one another... actually, to make the 'automobile' analogy make sense, clones are the kit cars of the auto world. GM, Ford, Mercedes-Benz, Daimler-Chrysler, etc are like TM, Ping, Cobra, etc. Components don't necessarily exist in the automobile analogy).

I was simply using them as an example of clone merchandise, is all.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

That's right they are clones of the leading makes. It's just that I knew a guy that distributed their stuff and fitted it for people. As an Engineer my opinion was that the materials they used and quality of the finish seemed exceptional value for money.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

My usual playing partner has a Pinemeadow Power??? 3000 Driver which is a clone of a previous TaylorMade series. He matches most people off the tee (at least in distance, he can be a bit wayward ), to this untrained eye the quality seems fine and since it was a freebie definitely excellent value.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

If you're never going to modify your clubs then clones are fine.

As a clubmaker who builds things to spec; clones are tougher to deal with. They're not manufactured to the same tolerances (so loft, lie, and weight can be further out, and the metal doesn't need to be as pure, and the annealing (metal hardening process) doesn't have to be done as well as an OEM or quality component).

What this means is that clones more frequently need bending and weighting and are more prone to failure in the bending machine. So as a clubmaker/fitter, I don't like them. If I was simply a fitter who would cut and glue (ie find the right shaft, head and grip, then tip trim shafts to mfr spec and stick 'em in heads), then clones would fit that bill nicely.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

What about brands like KZG or Maltby? Is that the kind of "stuff" you prefer to work with? How do they perform compared to a Mizuno or Titleist?

When I think clone, I think of the t7 (r7) the heather (burner) the SV2 (Nike's SQ2). Clubs MADE to look like the real thing, but I find it hard to believe that they perform like the real thing.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

KZG and Maltby are component designs, not clones.

Aye, the T7, Heather and SV2 are clones. Anytime a website says 'compare to [insert OEM brand here]', you can have 3 guesses what club they're cloning (but the first two won't count).

The component stuff I listed (like I forgot KZG!) isn't trying to clone anything - they're designed the same way the OEM's design theirs, but without the scads of marketing dollars behind their products that the end user has to pay for. Generally speaking, if someone is using a component design, it's because they like it, not because they're paid to.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

hello brian hows yourself, 3 truths in golf your spot on although i believe your 35% mental attitude in my case is somewhat out, 75% mental, my concentration levels are abysmal, maybe im just mental. anyway your 3 truths gave me a chuckle take care brian, happy golfing my friend.

Re: Three Truths in Golf

Hi there Pal,

Thanks and regards. This thread seems to have got a bit away from the original idea, as the saying goes "The devil is in the detail"