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Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

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  • Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

    Hi All,

    All being equal, does anyone know of a "graphite" shaft that has a significantly lower ball flight than the Aldila NV 65-S? I understand that people have different stock trajectories, but wondered if there was evidently a shaft that can bring the flight down lower than this shaft.

    Today I had a round with a friend who plays with a TaylorMade Burner 9.5 degree with R80 Rifle steel shaft, the one with the orange head (think it is a Supersteel. I play with the club as described in the title of this post.
    I had a go of his driver and achieved one of my rare "long" drives with the same lower trajectory, hence my search for a lower ball flight. I believe that the loft doesn't have that much of an influence in ball trajectory as the shaft has, so I don't want to change the head. The Aldila already has a high kick point with 3.5 degrees of torque, so not much can be done here. I swing around 100mph so stiff is correct for me. The only real option I can see is going to a steel shaft or finding a graphite shaft that has similar performance properties as steel.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

    Time for a change in your beliefs, mate.

    Do you really think that the reason your PW goes short and high compared to your driver is the shaft?

    The correct answer is loft. I could put your driver shaft - as is - in your PW and it would still be short and high. Sure, it may be a few yards longer due to the extra length, but you're also almost guaranteed to pull the shot.

    So, if you truly want a lower trajectory, get a lower lofted head. This will also in turn lower launch angle and ball spin. Now, if you're simply looking to get a little lower launch and trajectory, you can move to a stiffer-tipped shaft (like the AccuFLEX Evolution), but the lowest launch, lowest spin shaft I'm aware of is the Matrix F7M2 LTD. A little pricey, but it's unparalleled.

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    • #3
      Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

      I do understand how loft affects flight patterns, but there is only so much loft I can have before the differences become so small - I am already using a 9.5 degree driver, any less loft than this and I'm requiring accuracy at impact.

      The fact that the TM Supersteel reduced the launch angle and flight considerably is evidence that the steel shaft helped in achieving this flight. By the way, both heads measured 9.5 degrees +/- 1 deg on the loft spec. This club also outdrove my Nike when I swung it, so it must be the shaft

      I will consider a steel shaft for the driver if there is no graphite alternative. How does the NV-65s tip compare to the ACCUFlex and Matrix you mentioned? The NV has a 3.5 degree of torque.

      Thanks

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      • #4
        Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

        I did not comment before, as I am not familiar with the characteristics of Rifle shafts, but does R80 designate a regular flex rated for medium swing speed? I know the stock Taylor Made graphite shafts used to be designated as R80, R90, S-90, and whatever. Could the playing characteristics be that different for the regular steel versus the S high bend low torque graphite shaft, that the steel shaft would launch and flight lower? As you question, I also wonder if the answer may be in the tip characteristics.

        I remember that there were some pros who played regular shafts by choice. Mind you that was in the past, and just thinking more about it, that was in the steel shaft era of drivers. It may have been their particular swing characteristics.

        Ted

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        • #5
          Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

          I believe I just found out what R80 means for the Rifle steel shaft. R is regular, and 80 is not the speed, but the weight of the regular shaft. But my question still applies re regular steel versus stiff graphite for reducing flight.

          Ted

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          • #6
            Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

            I also wondered this too - does the stiffest, torqueiest, highest bend point graphite shaft match steel shafts, and hence can they ever get lower ball flights like the steel counterparts?

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            • #7
              Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

              Originally posted by koonl View Post
              I do understand how loft affects flight patterns, but there is only so much loft I can have before the differences become so small - I am already using a 9.5 degree driver, any less loft than this and I'm requiring accuracy at impact.

              The fact that the TM Supersteel reduced the launch angle and flight considerably is evidence that the steel shaft helped in achieving this flight. By the way, both heads measured 9.5 degrees +/- 1 deg on the loft spec. This club also outdrove my Nike when I swung it, so it must be the shaft

              I will consider a steel shaft for the driver if there is no graphite alternative. How does the NV-65s tip compare to the ACCUFlex and Matrix you mentioned? The NV has a 3.5 degree of torque.

              Thanks
              I need you to explain the bolded part - either the heads were measured or they weren't, or perhaps you're describing the roll?

              Most shafts are tip soft compared to the Evo and the LTD.

              The other question is where on the face are you hitting your driver? The reason I ask is because for the bulk of OEM drivers, the stamped loft is quite often found 1/2" from the soleplate - not in the middle of the face (and certainly not on the upper part of the face!) It wasn't so much a factor in the 300cc heads as there wasn't enough face height to really make a difference, but now with a 'short faced' driver still being 55mm and the average driver 57-58, it does play a part.

              Don't get me wrong - if you're looking to reshaft, by all means go. I have to wonder if the heavier shaft didn't help you out as well - Ted makes some excellent points.

              As a rule, you'll never find a graphite shaft with as low a torque value as steel. The best I've seen was 1.8 in an AccuFLEX heavyweight X. Felt like an absolute board for my 110MPH SS.


              Sadly, I've seen two types of results with superstiff versus superweak. Guys who can really maintain the lag can actually get MORE distance with a weak shaft. What happens is that they load the shaft (it deflects) and the shaft never, ever catches up - so the head is massively delofted at impact. However, this does tend to cause distance control and a few directional issues. Similarily, too stiff and there's no deflection at all, but it's a very consistent club.

              And I've seen it the other way around where guys who release early, cast, and or flip the club do better with stiffer shafts as they don't dynamically add as much loft as a softer shaft does.


              If it were me, I'd reshaft. If you like the feel of graphite, you may want to try an SK Fiber Tour Trac 90 - a mid torque 90g graphite shaft.

              Or say screw it and find your own steel shaft - both Rifle and True Temper make both lighter and heavier steel wood shafts.

              Sir, you've found my weakness - I love to tinker and experiment, although not usually under the most scientific of pretenses.

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              • #8
                Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                Originally posted by koonl View Post
                I also wondered this too - does the stiffest, torqueiest, highest bend point graphite shaft match steel shafts, and hence can they ever get lower ball flights like the steel counterparts?
                koonl,

                The answer is basically yes. Steel shafted drivers are not common these days, even by the pros. Sergio can hit high or low, but when he wants to go real low, he makes the adjustment and fires a screamer that never gets more than 20 feet up. That applies to other players, such as Tiger also. They play graphites X-Stiff and even tipped sometimes.

                Perhaps, in the extreme, a steel bar cannot be matched in stiffness by graphite

                Ted

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                • #9
                  Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                  I'm hitting my drives with my Nike at the top half of the club, the bulge in other words. Maybe I could tee it up lower.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                    Originally posted by koonl View Post
                    I'm hitting my drives with my Nike at the top half of the club, the bulge in other words. Maybe I could tee it up lower.
                    That's good. The advice given by the experts is to hit it at the top part.

                    http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...565249,00.html

                    If you pull up youtube video showing impact of top golfers, that's where they hit it.

                    Ted

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                      Originally posted by koonl View Post
                      I'm hitting my drives with my Nike at the top half of the club, the bulge in other words. Maybe I could tee it up lower.
                      Originally posted by rotator View Post
                      That's good. The advice given by the experts is to hit it at the top part.

                      http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...565249,00.html

                      If you pull up youtube video showing impact of top golfers, that's where they hit it.

                      Ted
                      But it also explains why he hits the Nike so much higher - the loft up there is much greater than the 9.5 he's expecting, whereas on the TM it's not.

                      The issue with teeing it lower, Koonl, is that you'll also pour on the spin to hit it lower on the face.

                      If you like the head, perhaps get the loft measured where you hit it on the face for a reference point, then find a head that's less lofted in the same spot.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                        Sounds like good advice - It is the Tour 460 version, which I believe is longer verticlly up the face than the standard version.

                        The ball flight starts reasonably high, never starts low and rises, either slowly or quickly, in any way, just a high launch of about 16 degrees with about 3500-4000rpm.

                        The TM definitely looks as if it has a few degrees lower launch angle and never reaches the same height as the Nike, it goes up on a lower angle, hangs up there then comes down slowly like the Nike. This clubs seems to have a huge advantage over the Nile in the winter time when the air is dense and the fairways are hard like yesterday. However, this club is the opposite in the summer and far shorter than the Nike. So I'm looking for such a driver to use in the winter months, but generally, I'd like a lower hitting driver anyway for more directional control.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                          Silly koonl! The answer is two drivers!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                            That's what I mean, two driver for two different conditions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Need lower ball flight than SQ460 tour 9.5 Aldila NV65s

                              I found this chart which gives some interesting data on Attack angle.

                              The attached article supports the chart:

                              http://bp3.blogger.com/_wjEekl3OGhM/...+of+Attack.jpg


                              According to Fredrik Tuxen, the inventor of the TrackMan launch monitor system:
                              Optimizing driving distance is a question of high ball speed, high launch angle and low spin rate. But you can, in general, not increase your launch angle without also increasing the spin rate. So the fundamental question was: What determines what spin rate/launch angle combination can be obtained? It turns out that for a well hit shot, attack angle is the primary parameter dictating what combinations of launch angle /spin rate are obtainable for a given player.

                              Attack angle is the primary parameter telling you why you obtain certain combinations of launch angle and spin rate – it is even more important than the club head speed! Also, the attack angle is related almost solely to your golf swing and not equipment related, which means it is something you, as a golfer, can change – it is pure technique!

                              Players like Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Sergio Garcia and Charles Howell III are all players who often swing with significant, negative attack angles. However, common for this group of players is their very high club and ball speeds, so they fly the ball pretty far despite their negative attack angle – they do not really have a distance problem! However, if they increased their attack angle they could hit the ball 30-40 yards further. But apparently they have deliberately chosen not to do this.

                              http://www.trackmangolf.com/newslett...tackAngle.html
                              Last edited by BrianW; 01-12-2009, 10:34 PM.

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