Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

Well said Bill. Pound driver, pound wedge (miss green), chip on, 3 putt. There's a double. This has been my story (well, substitute a duffed chip for one of those putts). Distance is no indicator of handicap. Handicap is a fine indicator of short game prowess and consistency.

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

I guess what I was getting at is many golfers have IMO the wrong goals to play good golf. I see it all the time at the range, people swinging clubs as hard as they can with very poor golf swings. If they really want to get better they will need to let go of distance and start learning to hit accurate shots that have a chance of moving towards target, distance will come better as the club releases more effectively. To my thinking its completely futile for someone to be concentrating on long hitting when they cannot putt, chip, pitch or progress the ball towards target.

I guess I have been a little feisty on this thread for which I apologise, I still stand by the same precepts though.

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

Sir, I am behind your above statement 100%.

More important than how far you hit it is knowing how far you hit it on average. Sure, you're going to pure the odd one and carry the green, and skank another one and come up short.

The goal of all my swing improvement has been to gain a consistent miss. I've played 4 years of inconsistent golf. I've learned along the way different things that make for inconsistency - in my first year it was overall horrible mechanics spraying the ball left and right, so steps were taken to improve them. The result was some better ballstriking. The next year I found that I didn't have the same ball position one shot to the next. On the range. So that became my focus. This helped, but iron shots will still go left and right despite my efforts. I managed to overcome this and won my flight at club champ. Year 3 was finding out that I could play some decent golf, hitting this gigantic cut (my alignment and ball flight looked like Monty). My shots were hammered by the wind and I'd either hit it at my target (but really high and often short) or I'd yank the snot out of it with a massive pull. Really I was hitting it dead straight according to my alignment - I basically played that year aligning my feet to my shoulders: wide open. Truly, it was my first taste of consistency - wobbly as it was. It was good enough to start showing the gaping holes in my short game, but also good enough to repeat as tops in my flight (4th - bottom of the barrel). Last year I discovered the joy of square shoulders. My drives tightened right up, iron shot dispersion zoomed in and I was consistently scoring in the 90's - in fact, I only had one triple digit score last year, and it was due to a) playing the tips and b) not being able to put a solid strike on the ball, which c) sapped my confidence and desire to even play. Needless to say I more or less booted it around that day. However, it was improvement enough to catapult myself into the first flight @ club champ (still a far cry from the championship flight, though) - welcome encouragement that I was on the right track.

I recently got back from Orlando where I attended a clinic put on by my coach. It was conveyed that of the amateurs, my swing was certainly the closest to the ideal that was presented. But it was quickly identified why I was still inconsistent (driver misses either blocks or hooks) and iron shots rarely flew straight (either pulls or fades) - my stance was a mile wide (making it very difficult to get back to my left side), my head moved a mile (no fixed point of rotation) and I really didn't shift my weight in either direction (I stayed 'stacked' very well). But my rotation even while moving was fantastic. The big problem was arms deep and disconnected. Club way behind and stuck - so without impeccable timing, the answer was either a block (no club release, and the severity based on where I could get my weight in the swing) or a hook (if the club released far too early), and with iron shots I was perpetually ahead of the ball.

So we solve these, and now my iron shots are knocking down pins. Still the occasional block when I don't get my weight forward (or stance too wide). But my misses have tightened up to the point where I shouldn't be missing greens laterally if I've aimed at the middle. It'll take some work to ingrain the proper feel for the new moves, and to see if there's a predominant miss, but this should be my most consistent ballstriking year. Coupled with some serious shortgame and putting practice, and it's not unreasonable to think that my handicap should tumble! However, there is no Club Champ for me this year, I decided against re-upping at the local course. Politics, mostly, but I want a club that respects the game of golf and runs tournaments by the rules.

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

Ben,

A very interesting synopsis of your game journey, it sounds that you have applied a good logical method to it.

If I look back I can see similar milestones myself. Keeping a steady head so that I could rotate around my spine angle and working on the connection of my arms and torso played a big part in my game improvement, when I understood that my hands needed to return at impact the same distance from my body as that set at address this also eliminated much of the erraticism.

There is another thread on the site regarding the problems with rolling the arms in the takeaway, this was also a great improvement milestone for me. I still take 20 minutes putting practice before I play which is on average three times a week this winter and get to the range once or twice a week to keep on with the job of creating a tighter and tighter game.

Enjoy the journey

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

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Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

hi golfinguy
i have always held the belief that learning the short game and and putting will have you swinging with a working swing more than working on your long game. to be able to chip and putt will same you ,ore shots then hitting the ball long with a driver and struggling with a bad short game or bad putting.

if i was teaching my kids i would start them chipping and pitching and working from a 1/2 to a 3/4 swing and only when they could do that to a good standard would i let then try and use a full swing. but i would keep then using a 7 or 8 iron so the backspin overpowers and side spin, then when they were at a reasonably level then work then to use a 6 then 5 and maybe a 4 iron.
that way they would had confidence in there short game and would be striking the ball reasonably well before using a 3 wood and then a driver.
most of the kids i have seen starting with a full swing and a driver seem to talk longer to get better golfers.
i know that the two cubs i have been members off start the kids (8 to 12 years old.) with the short game and after a few months all that stick the course seem to be golfing to a good level and better than i was when that age.
cheers
bill

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

It's actually a helluva thing - this whole getting good at golf thing.

Somebody once posted a poll on how you prefer to make a '6' (the option of "I don't" wasn't there). The two options were:

a) Hit two solid shots (tee shot, approach) then whack your way to the hole from inside 50 feet (4 putt, or chip on and 3 jack)

b) Duff your way down the hole then get up and down

It seemed to me that I aligned myself with A. I guess it's due to the widely held belief that everyone 3 putts in a while, but the mark of a good golfer is solid ballstriking - so some length off the tee and with your irons.

However, some of the logic for B is that if you've got a sharp short game, eventually your long game will come around and your scores will drop much faster - I think I agree with this.

In my quest for lower scores, I've focused on trying to keep the ball in play and trying to hit greens. It hasn't worked out so well. My best scoring days have, without fail, been days where the wedge and the putter have saved my bacon, turning easy bogies into good pars. In fact, my low score to date (an 87) came with only 5 FIR and 3 GIR, but 30 putts - I one putted 8 out of 9 greens on the front 9 including a chip in to save par.

Now, GG, you added 'and straight' to your comments - I don't remember Brian arguing high cappers being long and straight. High cappers that are long AND straight aren't high cappers for long unless their short games are absolute junk.

I'm long enough (hitting a 40 degree club 150 yards carry), but I can't find fairways or hit greens with it, so what good is the length? The only time it's useful is when I play the forward tees and don't have to 'risk' driver. I've been looked at funny a few times playing the 'ladies' tees at different courses when green-feeing it, but when I explain that I can't break par from there so why would I make the course harder, I usually hear that they've never thought of it that way. I don't always play up there, mostly I enjoy lengths around 6300 yards (one guide is the 27/36 rule - multiply how far you hit your 27 degree club by 36 for a recommended yardage).

I certainly plan to teach my kids from green to tee; let them putt and chip around the yard, then move to full swings later.

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

I don't see hitting long and straight as futile, if you can do it then that's great. What I am saying is that advancing the ball to target is absolutely a priority and long hitting second. As I said, distance will come once your swing becomes effective. I am also saying that golf is a game to begin enjoying from the start and you should work on all aspects of the game. The handicap system IMO is also something unique to our game and makes it a great leveler, I can remember in the past as a 22 handicapper knocking out two of the clubs best players in the club championships.

To improve your golf you must play the game IMO, you will never become a good golfer by only practising. I think using your philosophy it will take you a very long time to become a good golfer and it will not be much fun either. Get out and enjoy yourself

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

And this is where we disagre, you see hitting long and strait as futile, I see it as nessisary beofore moving on to putt, chip ect.. I also disagre with the whole handycap system. But this is just my opinion, I don't want any game leveling fairness, I was to play the best I can and if that means getting beat all the time, that means I need more practice. That was when I decided to quite playing with the pathetic swing I had with no foundation and build a swing form the ground up and that will be the foundation to my golf swing, then I will work on putting and chiping and pitching. I wouldn't call this long hitting futile as I would call is very nessisary and my foundationg to me getting good scores. I am a nice guy of the course/court/field (and not a jerk on it) but I am there to play, and do my best and the other person better be there for the same reasons, I don't care how good they do, I care how good I do. It won't happen today or tomorrow but it will happen. But being young I can afford to do this... Eventually I will work on my short game next, then onto my putting. Once I have set all the foundation to those skills I think I will then be able to play.


golfingguy,

The handicap system is there for a reason. It goes along with the social and integity values of the game. You play according to the rules and record honest scores. It allows you to compete against yourself, as you can follow the progression of the work that you put into improving yourself. It also allows you to compete against the field, so you can have a friendly or competitive match against the people you play with. You can play with a pro or a woman or child, on an equitable footing, and have great enjoyment. You can enter tournaments. I played in the Nanaimo Open on Vancouver Island one year, about 1990, with a 15 handicap. This is a tournament open to pros, as well as top amateurs (including hotshot U.S. College golfers). As did LowPost42, I've also won club handicap championships.

I have always enjoyed playing with a variety of people, whether at the clubs I was a member, or at the public courses, even at the driving ranges. I enjoy talking to them about what they do, etc. Some of them are beginners and are wary about playing with someone other than only their husbands (for instance). I am thrilled to see them make good shots, or even less than good but something that was good considering their physical or beginner limitations. I know how challenging the game is, so even if a competitor in a match pulls off a great shot or putt to beat me, I give heartfelt congratulations.

I love to compete, and I have obsessively applied myself to learn and improve on everything I get attached to, golf included, so I can compete or at least have a sound knowledge of the subject in question. But, I think what I really love about golf is it's a fine way of getting out and enjoying the day with other people with the same interest of enjoying the day. The pint or two after the round is the other thing I like about golf.

Ted

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

Spot on Ted

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

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Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

hi golfinguy
one thing i think your missing is that golf at our level is fun. its enjoyable. you go out and play a round and have a really bad day but you remember that one good shot you hit and that makes you come back for more.
I'm sure we have all hit that one shot in a round that was as good as a pro could hit and think "if i could only do that all the time?"
cheers
bill

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

As I said before have fun and enjoy golf, there are so many great people and experiences out there in this game. It seems to me you have the passion for the game and would probably do well to get some professional coaching and join a club.

Re: 3iron = 8iron 180yrd!!

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