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**BrianW** · 07-31-2008, 08:56 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

How do they improve spin?

**Shaggy** · 07-31-2008, 09:04 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Hi Brian.

The tool acts as a file and redefines the edges of the grooves in the wedge. Therefore the grooves bite more into the ball which creates the ball to spin off the club face.

http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/1...wedge-grooves/

This article demonstrates well the effects that sharp grooves make.

**callykid20** · 07-31-2008, 09:06 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

^^^they keep the grooves sharp which grabs the ball and spins it instead of dull grooves that let the ball slide up the club face which results in less spin. I used one and it works like a charm

**BrianW** · 07-31-2008, 09:15 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

You may be surprised that there is no scientific proof that grooves improve spin. They do assist to wick away water and grass juice from the clubface though. Just like car tyres, they grip well when slick.

**bill reed** · 07-31-2008, 09:33 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

hi
if you play out of sand then it would be impossible to make a ball stop on the green as the groves are filled with sand before the club face hit the ball but we all know that you do get some back spin and you see it all the time on the TV when a pro plays out of sand and the ball takes one or two hops and stops, this is down to the loft and angle of attack and that fact that the ball will run up the face even out of sand.
the reason they changed from the older punch dots to the grove is that it shifted more grass and sand away from the face. and works as Brian said like a car tyres. the ball makes more difference that the groves on a club. a 3 or 4 piece ball was spin more than a two piece. also a club with a milled face and no groves will compress a ball more and apply more spin than a club with groves and not a milled face.
if you take wedges like SMT durometer they put more spin on the ball if you use a soft skin ball but you will find out that after playing only 5 or 6 times with that wedge the ball is scuffed up due to the milled face and not the groves.
think of the drivers you now use and most have no groves over the impact part of the face and they still spin the ball at 2500rpm.
cheers
bill

**Shaggy** · 07-31-2008, 09:35 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

I haven't read anywhere of this any i can not comment on the exact science of how wedge grooves work. However there does seem to be many test done that have found a strong correlation between the spin rate of a ball and the condition of the wedge grooves. To my understanding, from what i have come across, groove condition do have a direct affect on spin.
Dont get me wrong, im not accusing you of lying, just i have never heard of this. :-)

**BrianW** · 07-31-2008, 09:54 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Originally posted by Shaggy View Post

I haven't read anywhere of this any i can not comment on the exact science of how wedge grooves work. However there does seem to be many test done that have found a strong correlation between the spin rate of a ball and the condition of the wedge grooves. To my understanding, from what i have come across, groove condition do have a direct affect on spin.
Dont get me wrong, im not accusing you of lying, just i have never heard of this. :-)

Grooves do assist to remove moisture from the clubface and stop the ball sliding with reduced spin when wet or with grass between the ball and club. Re-grooving tools will ensure the groves still do this they do not affect spin rates though, only the surface roughness of the clubface affects spin.

This article will help to explain:

http://www.patryangolf.com/2006/pat_...ace_driver.htm

**Shaggy** · 07-31-2008, 10:17 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Thanks for the article. very interesting. However from the tests carried out,for me, there is still too much correlation between the grooves and the spin rates to disregard the affect of grooves and spin generation. Club manufactures also must believe this due to the money they pile into R&D of club design, such as in the case of Taylormade's Z grooves and Cleveland's zip grooves.

**killer** · 07-31-2008, 10:30 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Could I just add, that when a ball is played out of sand the grooves on the club should play very little or no part in imparting spin. the spin is generated from the sand, as the club should never make contact with the ball for short bunker shot if executed correctly. The opposite is relevant if playing a long bunker shot, to execute the longer shot, very little or even no sand should be taken before ethe ball.

regards

**BrianW** · 07-31-2008, 10:31 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Originally posted by Shaggy View Post

Thanks for the article. very interesting. However from the tests carried out,for me, there is still too much correlation between the grooves and the spin rates to disregard the affect of grooves and spin generation. Club manufactures also must believe this due to the money they pile into R&D of club design, such as in the case of Taylormade's Z grooves and Cleveland's zip grooves.

Club manufacturers want you to buy their clubs rather than the competitions clubs so will tell you anything to promote their brand.

Grooves do assist with hitting out of rough where grass is trapped between the ball and face, the rules on grooves are only to regulate this effect and not the spin created hitting from the fairway.

**Shaggy** · 07-31-2008, 10:47 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

I understand what you are saying however how can the results of the independent tests be explained?
http://www.golf.com/golf/equipment/a...693415,00.html
surely if grooves did not affect spin then the results would be the same?
I presume that the same person carried out the tests on both clubs, therefore the strike angle was the same, and they were both struck from the fairway

**bill reed** · 07-31-2008, 10:48 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

hi
the R&A and PGA are looking at changing the law on groves on irons as players are getting to much spin out of the rough and bunker and its getting to the point where being in deep rough is no longer a penalty and players like tiger still get back spin out of heavy rough.
the are looking at changes that will affect the groves but only out of rough and bunkers, the want shots out of both bunkers and the deep rough to be harder to control and make it harder to score if hitting out of sand or rough.
the want to do this more than the other choice of making courses longer.
the R&A and PGA have been looking into this for the last year.
cheers
bill

**BrianW** · 07-31-2008, 10:55 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Originally posted by Shaggy View Post

I understand what you are saying however how can the results of the independent tests be explained?
http://www.golf.com/golf/equipment/a...693415,00.html
surely if grooves did not affect spin then the results would be the same?
I presume that the same person carried out the tests on both clubs, therefore the strike angle was the same, and they were both struck from the fairway

Those tests are not convincing. It is the surface roughness that affects the spin rates. The Vokey spin milled wedge has a rougher surface texture and it is this that makes the difference on the fairway shot, not the grooves.

**Shaggy** · 07-31-2008, 11:05 PM

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

It is clear that there are many conflicting views on the affect that grooves have which will never be resolved. However i am selling this item due to the many positive testimonials it has received from the people who have used it. Whatever the science is behind the process many customers experience a noticeable difference and are pleased with their purchase because of this.

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Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

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