your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

[bill reed]

Re: your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

hi Jeff
i think we are saying the same thing but what you are going into it in much more detail. i think we both understand the difference in the use or the reflex action of the hands and wrists.
where i have trouble is with AG Bonner and applying his system to a fade. i feel it it suited to a draw but goes against everything your trying to when hitting a fade. he (AG Bonner) wants to to actively use your right ahnd in closing the club face through impact. if hitting a draw i understand that but not if hitting a fade. he does not talk about hitting draw or fades but hitting it straight down the middle.
when i first read TGM Bobby Clamplet was they guy that based his swing on Homer and he had a great swing but again a draw swing. the only think in TGM if it does not always says what comes first. does it happen because of this or does that happen because you do this. it does go into most things very well and leaves you in little doubt as this or that happens.
i found the book was more aimed at the draw player than a player hitting a fade and i do think if you look at college players coming out on tour almost all look like that have taken the swing out homers book. i think most of the golf coaches in the USA base there knowledge on homers book.
cheers
Bill

[BrianW]

Re: your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

Bill - If you look at their swings, you will see that they do "open" the club, to some degree on the backswing. Maybe not to perfectly flat with the plane, as many do, but open relative to address nonetheless. Therefore, they must close the club back to square, at least. They do not have to go past square, they can hold off, but obviously it must close back at least to square. This is what I mean by open and close. How this is achieved, by body rotation or by forearm "rolling", or to what degree it occurs before or after impact, is irrelevant to the necessity of the action.

Brian - The point is not passive versus active. You can actively "square" the club with the hands, if you like, but the point is that it is not going to add significant power, the act of opening and closing the clubhead. A large potential for momentum is not available in that action due to the physics.

Thanks for the action, gentlemen.

I am referring to the action of holding the wrist angle and the clubface open or what is referred to as lagging the club, then releasing this wrist angle late in the downswing (release). You have two options: Letting the clubface stay normal to the conic surface of the impact area which would be considered as casting where clubhead speed is lower - or- retain the lag by holding the clubface open as the wrists remains hinged then the angle being released and the clubface closing from open to closed as it rotates into the follow through. I think you are referring to the clubface being rotated around it's axis, that is not what I am talking about.

Again the video from David Blair shows perfectly what I mean..

[BrianW]

Re: your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

Bill -
Brian - I no longer get into arguments by claiming that there is only ONE way to perform a golf swing. I merely state my personal preferences - and explain their underlying biomechanics.

Jeff.

Jeff,

But you have dismissed the article by Trevor Immelman, A J Bonnar and Nick Bradley (All professionals in their fields) , that is not stating your personal preferences.

I would recommend that you get a copy of 'Nail it' on the 3 Skills method of teaching golf (If you have not read it already) there is a link on the headers of this site. This book explains the 3 skills a golfer needs to make good ball contact and how they can empty their minds of all other swing thoughts. It clears away all the over complicated baggage promoted by systems like TGM that confuses most golfers. Please read it! you will probably take a completely different view of what is important in teaching/learning golf.

http://www.3skillsgolf.com

[Jeff Mann]

Re: your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

Brian - you are free to label TGM as being "over-complicated baggage".

I am only sorry that I didn't discover the TGM book sooner.

I do personally reject any active hand release actions (slap hinge action, or puck release action or crossover release action) as being suboptimal, but that merely reflects my personal set of TGM-influenced biases. I am not saying that you, or other golfers, should be deprived of the "right" to use active hand manipulations through the impact zone. You are also free to use the right arm/hand to power the golf swing. I don't mind. I simply have a different set of biases regarding the optimum way to power the golf swing.

Jeff.

[BrianW]

Re: your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

Brian - you are free to label TGM as being "over-complicated baggage".

I am only sorry that I didn't discover the TGM book sooner.

I do personally reject any active hand release actions (slap hinge action, or puck release action or crossover release action) as being suboptimal, but that merely reflects my personal set of TGM-influenced biases. I am not saying that you, or other golfers, should be deprived of the "right" to use active hand manipulations through the impact zone. You are also free to use the right arm/hand to power the golf swing. I don't mind. I simply have a different set of biases regarding the optimum way to power the golf swing.

Jeff.

Jeff,
I am not sure what your golfing experience is but I see golfers all the time that cannot or do not close the clubface and slice/push the ball, I would suggest this happens to most golfers out there. You may well reject any active hand release, my experience shows that some need it and some dont.


You are of course entitled to your opinion and I know you are interested in such detail as Homer Kelly uses, I just happen to believe it over complicates the process. The use of terms like #1 and #2 accumulators and pressure points to teach golf is IMO completely unnecessary and focuses too much on the movements that our bodies can perform quite naturally, as someone said to me recently it's a bit like explaining the physical movements someone carries out to walk when we can do it without thinking. The instructional techniques of people like David Blair and the liberating methods used in 3 skills are again IMO exactly what the aspiring golfer needs to get him playing sound golf. The Devil is (as they say) in the detail.

[jbrunk]

Re: your thoughts on TGM i.e homer keller, acumulators ect.

Just for the record, no one only swings or only hits. I think the latest 3D machines are proving hitting and swinging to be suboptimal. I read that the optimal power/contact swing is to 'pull' until the butt end is pointing at the target then 'push' with the right side like mad.