One Plane vs Two Plane swing

[Dewdman42]

I watched Jim Hardy's video about The Plane Truth and decided I wanted to be a one planer, so I've been working on that for a couple weeks. Actually, when I get it right it seems to work great, especially for my irons. I experimented briefly with Jim hardy's description of two plane and that just seems much less predictable to me. I dunno. Now on the driver, I'm having a really hard time getting good shots with one plane.

And I am sure I have lost some distance. I can't get the shaft back to parallel in a true one plane swing unless I over-turn my hips too far. When I do more of a two plane swing, I hit the ball a lot further, but just seems less predictable and repeatable to me. I dunno.

What are your thoughts on comparing these two approaches?

[bphillips]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

You can't get the club parrellel using a one plane swing. I have
the same video as you and find it to be good to watch on a rainey day when the weather has the Direct TV knocked out. The only true one axis swing I would put my money on would be Moe Norman. Moe shot 3 59's 2 61's and won 54 tournaments in Canada using it. Tiger made the comment on the Golf Channel that there were only two men who had ever owned their own swings, Ben Hogan and Moe Norman. The true one plane or one axis swing puts the club and right arm in line at the setup. The club is in Moes palms not his fingers as Hardy teaches. Keep searching, you will find the answer if you look hard enough, Start with Moe. bp

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Even Moe did not swing the club on one plane, it is not possible. He swung it on two parallel planes. He did however keep his arms out straight and on plane at address and was truly someone special.

Jim Hardy's one plane and Chuck Quinton's Rotary swings are really the same thing, they swing up onto the shoulder plane which is a little steeper than the two plane swing and swing back down to the address plane at impact.

[keiko]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I don't deny that there are different plane swings but I do contend that they are irrevelant to playing well.
Too much has been made of 1 vs. 2 plane swings in an attempt to take advantage of the opportunity to make money off something which doesn't make a hill of beans to the swing.
Many so called golf pro's are opportunists.

I watched Jim Hardy's video about The Plane Truth and decided I wanted to be a one planer, so I've been working on that for a couple weeks. Actually, when I get it right it seems to work great, especially for my irons. I experimented briefly with Jim hardy's description of two plane and that just seems much less predictable to me. I dunno. Now on the driver, I'm having a really hard time getting good shots with one plane.

And I am sure I have lost some distance. I can't get the shaft back to parallel in a true one plane swing unless I over-turn my hips too far. When I do more of a two plane swing, I hit the ball a lot further, but just seems less predictable and repeatable to me. I dunno.

What are your thoughts on comparing these two approaches?

[SurlyScarab]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I don't deny that there are different plane swings but I do contend that they are irrevelant to playing well.
Too much has been made of 1 vs. 2 plane swings in an attempt to take advantage of the opportunity to make money off something which doesn't make a hill of beans to the swing.
Many so called golf pro's are opportunists.

I am quite the novice so I'm sure my two-cents couldn't buy a penny but I am inclined to agree. Not too long ago I got over the consistent-contact hump and the main thing that did it was swinging in a way that felt natural. I didn't focus on stacks, planes, tilts etc... I started relaxing and letting it fly. It was the biggest improvement I've had since I learned to hit down on the ball.

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I dont think anyone suggests that you cannot play well using both swing types, many play great golf using both.

My opinion is that a one plane or 'On Plane' swing is simpler to use as it has less moving parts and so is easier to maintain, it does not rely on the complexities of lifting the arms above the shoulders, sliding the hips, dropping the club back down into the slot etc. It is also my opinion that anything that makes good ball contact easier is worth looking at.

If you study many good players including Tiger, Phil Mickelson, Trevor Immelman you will see that their swings have changed so that they now swing the club up onto their shoulder planes. Why? because it simplifies their swing. If you read Ben Hogans 5 Lessons which was and still is the corner stone on golf tuition you will see that he uses the image of a sheet of glass that passes from the ball and over his shoulders, he explains that you need to keep the club under this plane (not on it) through out the swing, the club should never pass through it, this is an on plane swing. He did not use two different planes of glass as some have suggested either.

The two plane swing also works well but due to its more complex nature it requires a lot of practice to maintain and may elude those that are less naturally coordinated.

If anyone is interested in having a sensible debate on this subject I welcome it but I am not interested in exchanges that simply suggest this or that is rubbish without adding substance to the proposition..

[Dewdman42]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Brian,

Thanks for your comments. That is the feeling I got too about the two swings, which is why I am motivated to master a one plane swing. However, I have lost a few yards from my drive this way. I think before I was less consistent but was getting that little extra bit of wrist cock at the top that actually added quite a bit of clubhead speed, but not as consistent mechanics. The one plane feels easier to repeat and I love it for irons.

By the way, some people here have mentioned "two parallel planes" and that is not Jim Hardy's idea of a two plane swing. Two parallel planes, is probably a one plane swing. A Jim Hardy two plane swing is when there are two planes that intersect due to the fact that the arms are moving up and down(that is one plane) while the torso is rotating(that is the other plane). If you are basically doing a one plane turn and the only thing you're worried about is the fact that your club head is not exactly lined up with your shaft....that is not what Hardy means by a two plane swing. That is a one plane variation. Hardy even mentions something along those lines in his video.

The point of his video is that a large number of golfers are out there probably doing some kind of hybrid between one plane and two and he believes that we need to commit to one way or the other and handle certain things entirely differently in the two approaches. he believes that there are mixed messages out there among instructors and golfers about this tip or that, which some apply to two planers and some apply to one planers. You need to know where you stand and filter out the tips that don't apply to you. That's the point of it.

If someone is doing two parallel planes, if that is actually even possible, I would contend that is a one plane that perhaps does not have optimal body alignment in terms of forward lean in the stance and the angle they takeaway the club. but if they are really meaning to do a true two plane swing, then they should be moving the arms up and down, the two planes cross and its entirely different mechanics then the one plane.

I still am not sure which is best though. Been practicing the one plane for a few weeks. All my shots are drawing now. Sometimes too much when I use too much arm. Practice makes perfect.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Here's a copy of a previous post I placed on here about swing plane. It might help, and definitely won't hurt.

"Another good piece of advice about staying on plane is to keep the elbows as level as possible durning the back swing. If one is lower or higher than the other, it will be more difficult to find the correct down swing position to impact. More than a few instructors will not relate this position to their students for various reasons, but for the most part, most professional golfers will have this position in the back swing. Those who don't are adding "extra" compensations in their down swing to find the correct impact position. You can see level elbows in BrianW's post with the guy in the white shirt.

A way to check this position is to lay a club across the inside of your elbows, when your hands, in the back swing reach about shoulder high. If the rear elbow is higher than the front elbow, you might tend to hit a fat shot, a slice, or a weak pop up to the slice side. If the front elbow is higher than the rear elbow you might tend to have too flat of a swing, which could cause topped shots, low line drives, or not taking a proper divot.

This is one one those "for what ever it is worth" posts, and was taught to me by my instructor (RIP) many years ago, long before the subject of being on plane was being discussed. GJS"

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Here's a copy of a previous post I placed on here about swing plane. It might help, and definitely won't hurt.

"Another good piece of advice about staying on plane is to keep the elbows as level as possible durning the back swing. If one is lower or higher than the other, it will be more difficult to find the correct down swing position to impact. More than a few instructors will not relate this position to their students for various reasons, but for the most part, most professional golfers will have this position in the back swing. Those who don't are adding "extra" compensations in their down swing to find the correct impact position. You can see level elbows in BrianW's post with the guy in the white shirt.

A way to check this position is to lay a club across the inside of your elbows, when your hands, in the back swing reach about shoulder high. If the rear elbow is higher than the front elbow, you might tend to hit a fat shot, a slice, or a weak pop up to the slice side. If the front elbow is higher than the rear elbow you might tend to have too flat of a swing, which could cause topped shots, low line drives, or not taking a proper divot.

This is one one those "for what ever it is worth" posts, and was taught to me by my instructor (RIP) many years ago, long before the subject of being on plane was being discussed. GJS"

Very good advice GJS. Hogan explained that the elbows should be kept close together through the swing which stops them bowing and getting out of position.

[keiko]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

For a generation, the best players didn't pay any attention to whether they were one or two plane swingers yet they played extremely well given the ball, equipment and courses at that time.
It is only when jim hardy and others found a gimmick to set themselves apart from other teachers and garner a niche' for themselves in an otherwise mundane teaching world that anyone promoted different planes.
Instead of Hogan's "the plane" now we have to contend with 1 or 2 planes which has only served to add more confusion to most players who attempt to follow such nonsense.
Not wanting to bash anyone but you have to admit it is very suspect and really not worthy of further discussion.

Very good advice GJS. Hogan explained that the elbows should be kept close together through the swing which stops them bowing and getting out of position.

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

For a generation, the best players didn't pay any attention to whether they were one or two plane swingers yet they played extremely well given the ball, equipment and courses at that time.
It is only when jim hardy and others found a gimmick to set themselves apart from other teachers and garner a niche' for themselves in an otherwise mundane teaching world that anyone promoted different planes.
Instead of Hogan's "the plane" now we have to contend with 1 or 2 planes which has only served to add more confusion to most players who attempt to follow such nonsense.
Not wanting to bash anyone but you have to admit it is very suspect and really not worthy of further discussion.

What has that got to do with the elbows keeping level?

Moe Norman certainly designed a one plane swing that made him probably the most accurate ball striker ever. You are of course entitled to your opinion on the subject and I would hope are able to let others have theirs and debate the subject further as they feel fit.

[rladams5442]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Does anyone have a move or a thought or a trigger to initiate the downswing in the one plane swing?

[buzzyb]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Do you think Moe ever in his life thought about one vs.two plane?I don't think so.The reason Moe was so great was digging the answers out of the dirt.Practice!!!

[rladams5442]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Thanks for all the help, buzzy. Practice, huh. What a concept.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

He probably did not. One thing is for sure. His elbows were level.

GJS

Do you think Moe ever in his life thought about one vs.two plane?I don't think so.The reason Moe was so great was digging the answers out of the dirt.Practice!!!