Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

We must not underestimate the importance of the legs in the golf swing. For instance, when performing a backswing pivot, the lower half of the body provides a stable base to turn against(X factor), the feet apply downward pressure into the ground, the left knee bends inward to and possibly behind the ball depending and to allow the weight shift, the right foot takes 80% of the weight transfer onto it's heel(heresy) and when transition occurs the right knee is driven towards the left BEFORE the downswing begins.
All this happens in less than 10 seconds.

Good post! Absolutely.

I also agree about he heel being heresy. All the force plate work I've seen says it's more middle of back foot. I asked Dr. Robert Neal where the weight went in the backswing and he concurred it was more toward the middle inside, NOT the heel.

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

hi
i feel that having the right knee flexed so you feel some tension in the inside right thigh, stops any backword slid of the hips, the hips sliding back destroys your swing and in maintaning the felx of the right knee and inside of the right thigh stops any sway back to the right of the hips and body.
it also stops any roll of the weight from the inside of the right foot to the outside on the backswing. keeps the feel that the weight is always on the inside of the right foot.
this helps in only letting the hips slid towards the target on downswing.
i do think this is very important and once you get the feel, you body feels stable and your swing controled.
Cheers
Bill

There are physical reasons why a hip slide is bad. It's just a matter of how technical you want to get.

To the player keep the pressure on the inside of the back foot and keep the knee bent is a goal. The simple reason may be as you state to prevent the hips from sliding. But a more technical reason is that you need to be applying shear force to the ground through the right foot. Sliding the hips back puts the pressure on the outside of the back foot and reduced the amount of shear force you can apply to the ground.

It's good to know what you should do, but it's fantastic when you understand the science of why.

[kbp]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Maybe not by you. But I'm sure you can find a few people who question it.


Completely disagree. The right leg is straightening and the left hip is moving forward. THAT is the evidence of the right leg PUSHING the left hip forward.

In Rory's swing his left hip is moving far more than any right shoulder movement towards the right hip.



As for Sadlowski, I didn't see any picture or evidence but I don't know how a planting of the left foot would prove the right side isn't pushing the weight forward.


That's because I don't think you quite understand how force plates work. They measure the force acting on the ground. As a person crouches toward the ground they actually apply LESS force to the plates. As a person pushes off the ground then the pressure increases.

If there was a compression of the right side as you suggest, we would see people getting lighter on the right foot.

Kim’s right leg is absolutely NOT straightening to start the downswing. Bill Reed noted such. His knee is bending more in the first move, actually. Stand up and see if bending the knee involves a push. The hip moves from the trail side compression. Stand up straight and then bend sideways. The right shoulder drops and the left hip moves left. Weight moves off the right and to the left. No pushing required.

Sandlowki’s back knee is also bending immediately. I posted the animation on page two next to Rory’s. I don’t recall saying anything about his left side.

Again, the force plates clearly shows the player "getting lighter" on the right foot at the very beginning of the downswing. Go to the YouTube. Use the slider at the bottom. He is gradually loading until frame 0:06. Weight shift. Loading. The line that represents his center of force is gradually moving right. At frame 0:06 he is at maximum force on the right foot and just finishing his backswing. At frame 0:07 his center of force is already back to center. The force on the right foot is much lower and decreasing from here on out. Move the slider between 0:06 and 0:07. Clearly the start of the downswing. I didn't see any big "push-off"....any 175 percent of body weight increase in ground force to start the downswing? I didn't see any increase. His hands haven’t even dropped yet and the alleged "pushing" is completely over?

Sandlowski....straight back leg at the top....interesting.

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Kim’s right leg is absolutely NOT straightening to start the downswing. Bill Reed noted such. His knee is bending more in the first move, actually. Stand up and see if bending the knee involves a push. The hip moves from the trail side compression. Stand up straight and then bend sideways. The right shoulder drops and the left hip moves left. Weight moves off the right and to the left. No pushing required.

His right knee is moving inward so as to position himself better to push. And it IS in the process of straightening.



I'm not saying it goes straight immediately, but it IS straightening because it's pushing on the right hip. That push causes the left hip to pull away from the left shoulder.

Sandlowki’s back knee is also bending immediately. I posted the animation on page two next to Rory’s. I don’t recall saying anything about his left side.

Barely bending, I see much more rotation of the right leg and working toward getting the knee over the arch of the back foot. For someone with as much pelvic rotation and straightening in the backswing as he has, he is in a desperate need to get his leg into that position so that he can push it. Up to this point it's been all lower body rotation while the club and shoulders have the exact same relationship. How do you rotate the hips? With some right leg push. In Jamie's case, he push and twists his leg off of his heel first to get his knee out more toward his toe, then he finally drives his right leg forward. But the key is in how much the right hip is moving. That right hip could not possibly move if it weren't for him exerting some effort of the right leg. The right leg is the one that has all the shear force on the ground.

The lat's are also firing which is pulling his elbows closer to his rib cage. I think this is the motion you are trying to identify as the primary activator of the forward swing. It undoubtedly must happen, but in better swings it happens a bit later so that the left hip can pull on the lat. Jamie is so stretched at the top of his backswing, that he does not need extra pull on the lat. Instead it's all about rotating the torso forward while barely a half second later inducing a lat pull.

Again, the force plates clearly shows the player "getting lighter" on the right foot at the very beginning of the downswing. Go to the YouTube. Use the slider at the bottom. He is gradually loading until frame 0:06. Weight shift. Loading. The line that represents his center of force is gradually moving right. At frame 0:06 he is at maximum force on the right foot and just finishing his backswing. At frame 0:07 his center of force is already back to center. The force on the right foot is much lower and decreasing from here on out. Move the slider between 0:06 and 0:07. Clearly the start of the downswing. I didn't see any big "push-off"....any 175 percent of body weight increase in ground force to start the downswing? I didn't see any increase. His hands haven’t even dropped yet and the alleged "pushing" is completely over?

Sandlowski....straight back leg at the top....interesting.

Not sure how you don't see the really big green spike indicating more pressure on his right foot.

As for Sadlowski, he has one of the biggest hip turns you'll ever see and yes he straightens his leg. But he has to return his right knee back over the arch of his right foot before he can begin to push.

I think the initial move can be a lot of things for various swings. But in the BETTER and more consistent players, it's been measured to be a push of the right leg. It's just where the data takes us. Not everyone abides by it, but we shouldn't just disregard the information totally just because a few people don't do it. I would place AK as one of those guys who definitely does a right leg push. Jamie has such a big rotation of the hips and a straightening of the leg that he cannot push until he rotates it first. Still, this requires effort of the right leg to do it. Just a different kind of push than just pushing forward.

[kbp]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Again, the discussion is the cause of the drop......the first move from the top. AK is LONG past this point in the picture when he straightens. Same with Sandlowski. Same with your heel spike in the You Tube. Look at the topographic map on the YouTube. Gradual loading on the right to the top, abrupt unloading and weight shift back to center. The "really big green spike" on the other graph happens AFTER the unloading/weight shift and the drop.

Sandlowki’s drop that you show goes straight leg to flexed leg. You can’t "push" off your fully loaded right heel with a straight leg. Have you tried it? Try to imitate Sandlowski’s move and see what muscles are required to lift that heel as the FIRST move. See what that heel lift does.

What you are seeing is weight shift, drop, and rotation WITHOUT pushing. Will he start adding pushing after this? I would think so! He hits the ball a long way.

In better swings, the back and side muscles initiate the action AND drive all the way through. Not just the lats. You will see the players who really get through the ball have a lower back arch and a lateral bending starting at the top and powering through.

I still haven’t seen this data that shows a huge push-off , this 175 percent of body weight increase as the first move. The instigator of the drop. We HAVE seen data that shows NO additional push off force to start and we’ve seen pushing AFTER the drop.

[Ringer]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.... but I think it's been a good conversation.

[kbp]

Re: Great Tips I Highly Recommend!

Fair enough. Thanks form the healthy debate. People can look at the info presented and decide for themselves.