Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

[BrianW]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

I suggest that see your club pro because he can see whats happening while striking the ball.

As you have quoted my thread, are you suggesting there is something wrong with my advice?

[bdbl]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

In case it helps with the laser advice you might wnat to look at 4 - Swing Plane.

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...sevenlaws.html

The article also [Bradleys 7-Laws] touches on the "sternum set up" suggested by Brian in his Ball Position article.

[BrianW]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

In case it helps with the laser advice you might wnat to look at 4 - Swing Plane.

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...sevenlaws.html

The article also [Bradleys 7-Laws] touches on the "sternum set up" suggested by Brian in his Ball Position article.

Yes, thats right. I stated in my article that I based it on his teachings. He is my golfswing Guru. I have learned so many great golfswing thoughts from him.

[bdbl]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Brian

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that you hadn't acknowleged the source.

Indeed I looked up the article because I'd tried the ball position advice at the range with encouraging results - especailly with the woods - and knew it was Bradley that you were quoting and wanted to know a bit more.

As some one who also fights an OTT "hit", one other thing I tried, which Mariner might consider, was splitting the balls I'd set aside for tee shots into 2/3 1/3 piles. I then hit 2 wedges and 1 3-wood, 2 wedges and 1 3-wood and so on to try and get the feel of swinging not hitting from the tee.

[BrianW]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Brian

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that you hadn't acknowleged the source.

Indeed I looked up the article because I'd tried the ball position advice at the range with encouraging results - especailly with the woods - and knew it was Bradley that you were quoting and wanted to know a bit more.

As some one who also fights an OTT "hit", one other thing I tried, which Mariner might consider, was splitting the balls I'd set aside for tee shots into 2/3 1/3 piles. I then hit 2 wedges and 1 3-wood, 2 wedges and 1 3-wood and so on to try and get the feel of swinging not hitting from the tee.

I use and like the method of tracing the butt end of the club through the swing, it takes care of the plane, path and wrist cock issues. Separately someone mentioned a laser device promoted by Butch Harmon that uses the same method:
http://www.practicerange.com/detail.aspx?ID=649

[edshaw]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Mariner:
If you wouldn't mind going to this site:
http://www.thegolfsystem.com/
Find the vertical panel on the right
and note the top photo has to do
with tracking the club with animated
lines.
Would you mind commenting on what
you see in that picture?

[Christo]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Certainly the biggest question in golf. Why do most of us have difficulty with the out-to-in swing? I'm in the same place as you now. Playing of a 12 handicap, but needing to switch to a higher gear.

Read the best article in the Golf Digest this week. Showed a analysis of a few pros swings. They showed the angle of the shaft relative to the horizon(From behind) when the left arm is horizontal. All of them had a lesser angle in the downswing than in the backswing. Jim furyk even had a 85' angle going back and a 45' angle coming down.The article was called hitting the slot.
What this is saying is that they are getting the club on the inside track and lagging the clubhead behind. Not swing the club with their arms, but letting it follow the legs.

Curious I took this to the range yesterday, because I'm a out-to-inner myself. The results were astounding. My consistency improved a lot and it just felt better.
So starting the downswing with the legs and letting the club drag behind, was the solution for me. Check your back and downswing angles and maybe you'll come to realise why you are swinging out-to-in.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Christo,

You have touched on Ernie Els 'Magic Move' ie when you reach the top of your backswing start the downswing by moving the left knee toward the target allowing the arms to drop naturally, they should fall to the inside as the left knee moves.

However there are many reply's to this thread all of which may work, mine is a simple one, put a piece of wood/headcover just outside the ball, you have to come inside or hit the wood.......simple, just takes a good few weeks practice.

No-one has answered the underlining question at the start of this adventure....................WHAT MAKES SO MANY GOLFERS COME FROM THE OUTSIDE, WHY DO 90% OF GOLFERS DO IT????????


Ian.

[Christo]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Christo,

You have touched on Ernie Els 'Magic Move' ie when you reach the top of your backswing start the downswing by moving the left knee toward the target allowing the arms to drop naturally, they should fall to the inside as the left knee moves.

However there are many reply's to this thread all of which may work, mine is a simple one, put a piece of wood/headcover just outside the ball, you have to come inside or hit the wood.......simple, just takes a good few weeks practice.

No-one has answered the underlining question at the start of this adventure....................WHAT MAKES SO MANY GOLFERS COME FROM THE OUTSIDE, WHY DO 90% OF GOLFERS DO IT????????


Ian.

Ian.

Practice the drill with the piece of wood a lot. Great drill.

Answer to your question: I believe most golfers do this because the natural instinct is to swing with your arms. The legs and hips aren't used correctly.
A lack of understanding and limited athletic ability. Remember that golf is played by a lot of players that just does not have the neccesary athletic ability to be a below 10 handicapper. A lack of study of the game and of course not enough practise. You have to undestand the golf swing and apply it correctly. 90% of golfers have difficulty in the above.

[BrianW]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Christo,

You have touched on Ernie Els 'Magic Move' ie when you reach the top of your backswing start the downswing by moving the left knee toward the target allowing the arms to drop naturally, they should fall to the inside as the left knee moves.

However there are many reply's to this thread all of which may work, mine is a simple one, put a piece of wood/headcover just outside the ball, you have to come inside or hit the wood.......simple, just takes a good few weeks practice.

No-one has answered the underlining question at the start of this adventure....................WHAT MAKES SO MANY GOLFERS COME FROM THE OUTSIDE, WHY DO 90% OF GOLFERS DO IT????????


Ian.

I think the answer to why so many golfers come from the outside is: They have a natural inbuilt tendency to create power in the downswing by throwing the upper torso, shoulders and arms at the ball in an effort to create a powerful leverage through the large muscles in this area.

In comparison allowing the arms to drop by their own weight, the hips to start easily unwinding and the right shoulder pivoting down to a point where the right side can fire through seems to the mind a weaker way to generate power and speed.

So! please understand, I am not proposing the former is correct, I am just answering the question as to why so many get it wrong and why it is difficult to teach people to change.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Great,

We now have two correct answers:

1) I believe most golfers do this because the natural instinct is to swing with your arms. The legs and hips aren't used correctly.

2) I think the answer to why so many golfers come from the outside is: They have a natural inbuilt tendency to create power in the downswing by throwing the upper torso, shoulders and arms at the ball in an effort to create a powerful leverage through the large muscles in this area.


Both refer to using the lower body more......................I think this is the answer, maybe the other answers including mine may introduce a better lower body action, but the right answer still remains the same work on the lower body more.


Ian.

[Kenisu]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

No-one has answered the underlining question at the start of this adventure....................WHAT MAKES SO MANY GOLFERS COME FROM THE OUTSIDE, WHY DO 90% OF GOLFERS DO IT????????

Ian.[/quote]


Hi Ian,

Let me give you an answer.

CENTRIFUGAL FORCE. The merry-go-round effect.

Turn around your body as an axis and drop your arms, turn around faster and faster. What happens to your arms and hands? They get far from the axis more and more.
Everybody has a different swing and set up with different flaws in it but the Laws of Phisycs are the same in every swing.

When you rotate your body in the downswing the arms and hands are exposed to an important centrifugal force that wants to separate them from your body (axis).
This makes the clubhead travel out the target line and you'll have to manipulate it to hit the ball.
Once you know this you put an opposite equal force that keeps your hands into the slot making the clubhead come inside the line.

Toni.

[Christo]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

In the past I've tried to correct swing errors, but when I see myself on a video analysis, I realise I'm still doing the same things wrong, maybe just a little bit more correct. Change needs to be radical at times.

A muscle needs to repeat an action 4500 times,before it's second nature.
This is a scary fact. We may even know what we are doing wrong, but without knowledge, practise and natural athletic ability you'll never get out of the habit.
A problem like an out-to-in swing needs hours of hard work.

You have to defy our instincts. Most golfers never get to this point.

"Learn, understand, practise, practise and then you practise again."

[edshaw]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Two answers to the basic question:
First, most golfers don't get the
clubhead far enough to the inside
to begin with.
Second, with the intention to
hitting the ball a great distance
anyway, they immediately engage
the full power of the right hand.
At that point, there is really no
place else for the clubhead to go
but to the outside.

[jambalaya]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Mariner, I am going to say the problem has
more to do with keeping it inside on the
way down than it has to do with getting
it inside to begin with.
A couple of key lower body factors enter in.
A couple of key sequence of swing factors
also enter in. However, the over riding factor
in getting it back is learning to make
the full turn, and, that results, yes, in the
hands being somewhere between one and two
feet directly behind the right ear at the top
of the swing. (The toes point ahead, the heels
point behind, so that we know what is meant
by behind)

That's for sure. When I first started working on the problem my first move was to start the club more on the inside going back which actually can make the problem worse. It can cause you to throw the right shoulder outward to get the club head back to the ball. One thing one of my instructors emphasized was swinging the club head around the body. He wanted me to really feel the weight of the club head on the end of the shaft which promotes a loosening of the grip a bit. I recognize now that when I grip the club too tight I can only feel the shaft so to speak. The instructor wanted me to visualize the path on which the club head was traveling. I tried to feel the club head dropping down and coming from the inside. This helped a bit but additional work on the mechanics was still required.