Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

[jambalaya]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

I'm going to repeat a response I wrote on a previous thread. Again, I saw this on the golf channel and I think it is brillant.
1) Take a piece of rope about 50 inches
2) Attach on end to a a tree or some vertical fixture
3) Attach the other end to your right thumb (you can use some type of ring)
4) Take your stance so the rope is taut with a club (any club)
5) Swing back maintaing the tautness of the rope ( but do not pull on it )
6) NOW the KEY - on the downswing maintain the tautness of rope. You will notice that to do this the hand and arms come close to the chest. (IF YOU LOSE THE TAUTNESS AT THIS POINT YOUR HANDS HAVE MOVED FOWARD TOWARDS THE TARGET LINE HENCE CREATING AN OUT TO IN SWING)
7) if you maintain the tautness of the rope, You have now swung on the correct plane.

This is nuts. I need to try this. Does the tree or pole have to be directly behind you or what?

[bahamaman]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Buy an offset driver. Both Cobra and Nike makes them. You will start to pull, hook and draw your shots. It's a quick fix but it's a lot more pleasurable playing the rest of the game from the fairways. I've been using one for 2 months and it's kinda like a fellow said in a previous posting. Leadbetter said rather than attack the problem from head-on, do something drastic to to give you a feel of what you're up against. Soon I will be back to my old Ben Hogan driver 9.5 and hitting it staight. Good luck. It works. P.S. I've been hitting 80 percent of fairways with a very repeatable swing.

[mariner]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

I've got one, and I wouldn't be without it with OOB on the right of the first 5 holes at my club! It doesn't address the question about why the difficulty in teaching the inside to out swing path, but it certainly goes a long way towards nullifying the out to in swing that 90% of golfers suffer from.
If anybody wants to try one at virtually no risk, you can get a Ben Sayers M1 Offset for £20 on the web . . . . I have recommended this club to SO many people who all now swear by it, it's just the easiest club to hit ever!
The latest convert turned up to our society day on Monday with it still in it's cellophane wrapper having had no time to take it to the range - he was understandably reluctant to try it on the course, but I told him you just can't miss with it, and he went on to to hit high long draw shots straight down the middle and won the day (he usually slices drivers)

[Neil18]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Blimey! Old thread!

I'd say that the main reason out-in kills 90% of golfers is that too much emphasis is put on the body "powering the golf swing". What a load of utter tosh. The golf swing has to be more arms than body. There's no two ways about it. Using the body excessively doesn't allow the arms to work as the should, on the correct lines they should be on. Plus, your arms are holding the club, not your torso. Basic biology really.

Use the body, yes, but not to the extent that it ruins your arm action. Of which there should be plenty.

I blame Ben Hogan! And I think he's great!

[mariner]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Wow, that will open a can of worms! There's a lot of people that say the body, and espeically the legs, power the golfswing . . . . . .
I reckon a right-hander using too much of that dominant right arm gets into trouble as it seems the natural thing to do, but makes you come over the top.
I have had a bit of success thinking about swinging with the left arm and keeping the right arm completely out of it (I probably don't, but that's what I'm thinking)

[Neil18]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Wow, that will open a can of worms! There's a lot of people that say the body, and espeically the legs, power the golfswing . . . . . .
I reckon a right-hander using too much of that dominant right arm gets into trouble as it seems the natural thing to do, but makes you come over the top.
I have had a bit of success thinking about swinging with the left arm and keeping the right arm completely out of it (I probably don't, but that's what I'm thinking)

LOL!

Legs proviode stability, sure. We stand on them. And they facilitate movement. Golf ain't so different from walking. And we can all do that!

I believe it isn't so much the right arm the causes OTT swings, but the right shoulder. Keeping the right shoulder up and back in the early stages of the downswing is almost a guarantee of not going OTT......yeah you know me.....I plead guilty.........wanna cup o' tea?.........ahem.

The body and arms have to move the same PROPORTIONAL amount. The arms and hands being on the "outside of the record" actually have more work to do than the core/hub/torso and shoulders in order for the club to reach the ball at the right time in relation to the body movement as a whole.

We're open to the target at impact because the clubhead lags behind and is whipped through as the forearms turn over SLOWLY. Not because the body's turn has forced the arms to do something.

[bill reed]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

hi
i think swigging from the inside has to do with the right elbow. having the right elbow drop in front of the right hip and then have the legs and hips drive the swing forward are what makes a good inside swing.
if you look at Hogan and how close his right elbow is to his tight hip and how that also pulls down the left arm. you only need to move the weight to the left and turn the hips a little to bring the club back into the ball.
it is impossible to swing from outside to in if the right elbow moved to just in front of the right hip as it always gives you an inside line.
it also helps if you have an open stance to help your hips clear the way.
if you have a closed stance then you must work the wrists a lot more so the right hand comes over the left just after impact.
cheers
bill

[jambalaya]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

hi
i think swigging from the inside has to do with the right elbow. having the right elbow drop in front of the right hip and then have the legs and hips drive the swing forward are what makes a good inside swing.
if you look at Hogan and how close his right elbow is to his tight hip and how that also pulls down the left arm. you only need to move the weight to the left and turn the hips a little to bring the club back into the ball.
it is impossible to swing from outside to in if the right elbow moved to just in front of the right hip as it always gives you an inside line.
it also helps if you have an open stance to help your hips clear the way.
if you have a closed stance then you must work the wrists a lot more so the right hand comes over the left just after impact.
cheers
bill

I agree. My most recent change is to keep the right arm glued in the address position. If you don't let the right arm slide behind you or lift too high, it much less likely you will swing over-the-top. My right arm simply just folds at the elbow on the backswing. I also use my left shoulder/arm to start the backswing and downswing. The only thing I fight now is the inside-to-inside swing and a pull which is eaiser to control for me.

[bill reed]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

hi Jambalaya
i found standing in front of a mirror and swing back and stopping and checking, then dropping the right elbow in front of the hip and checking, and then shifting the weight to the left side and my hip slid and turn seem to bring the club back to the ball without thinking off my arms or hands or even any shoulder turn, it all seems to happen by its self, just making sure the right elbow is in front of the right hip bone.
the only think that goes wrong i see is the the hip gets in front of the right elbow. making sure the elbow leads the hip let the leg drive and hip turn seem to give you the power into the ball. maybe it don't add power but it gives you that feeling.
cheers
bill

[Jeff Mann]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

I think that if golfers understood human biomechanics better, then they would see the solution to the problem.

I believe that the correct answer is not band-aid therapy (placing an obstacle outside the ball to discourage hitting from out-to-in), but creating a correct kinetic sequence - as delineated in this diagram.



The downswing must start from the bottom-up with a pelvis shift-rotation move that shifts the pelvis left-laterally thereby creating secondary axis tilt. Then, when the shoulders rotate, the right shoulder can rotate downplane (rather than roundhouse) as a result of the pelvis shift-rotation movement - as demonstrated in this next photo.



When the pelvis shift left-laterally, it causes secondary axis tilt, which then allows the right shoulder to move downplane along the upper hula hoop axis (parallel to the turned shoulder plane).

See - http://www.golf.com/golf/video/artic...595277,00.html

Once the right shoulder moves downplane, it allows the arms to approach the ball from an inside track.

The second key point in the kinetic sequence is that the left arm must move passively in the early downswing - because it is being pushed by the upper torso during the pivot-drive action (at pressure point #4). Note that the left arm only reaches its peak speed in the late downswing - after the upper torso rotation decelerates and catapults the left arm forward (release of power accumulator #4). A golfer must get this kinetic sequence correct and avoid two problems - i) getting the kinetic sequence out-of-order and starting the downswing with over-active arms, which over-accelerate the hands in the early downswing; and ii) using any right arm push-pressure at any time point in the downswing.

I have described this problem-issue in great detail in my downswing chapter.

http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/downswing.htm

There are secondary factors that also predispose to an OTT move that may need attention eg. not rotating the pelvis in the backswing and having a static pelvis; not getting the hands deep enough (far away from the ball-target line) by the end of the backswing; reverse pivoting; starting the downswing with a hip spinning action rather than a left-lateral pelvis shift action.

Jeff.

[vp27519]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Now I haven't read all the additions since I posted but I thought I would give my two bob's worth. Cos, I reckon I have grasped it.

Had lesson with coach not too long ago.

I was still coming over the top slightly.

The key I am working on now is keeping the club behind the body on the down swing.

Just a slight pause during the transition of the down swing with the hands and a wee lil slide of the hips towards the target.

I visualise the club being behind my body, ie, being to the right of my body. Have I lost you???

All new concept and the hands aren't doing what they are suppose to, ie, timing, but that will come.

[LowPost42]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Now I haven't read all the additions since I posted but I thought I would give my two bob's worth. Cos, I reckon I have grasped it.

Had lesson with coach not too long ago.

I was still coming over the top slightly.

The key I am working on now is keeping the club behind the body on the down swing.

Just a slight pause during the transition of the down swing with the hands and a wee lil slide of the hips towards the target.

I visualise the club being behind my body, ie, being to the right of my body. Have I lost you???

All new concept and the hands aren't doing what they are suppose to, ie, timing, but that will come.

Sounds to me like you're visualising getting stuck. Sure, the fade will be gone but the flip-hook or the straight block will show up.

[jambalaya]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

Now I haven't read all the additions since I posted but I thought I would give my two bob's worth. Cos, I reckon I have grasped it.

Had lesson with coach not too long ago.

I was still coming over the top slightly.

The key I am working on now is keeping the club behind the body on the down swing.

Just a slight pause during the transition of the down swing with the hands and a wee lil slide of the hips towards the target.

I visualise the club being behind my body, ie, being to the right of my body. Have I lost you???

All new concept and the hands aren't doing what they are suppose to, ie, timing, but that will come.

That hip slide which most golfers would call a hip bump is a key move. It is really weight shift; establishing a new pivot point centered on the front leg as oppose to the backswing for which the right leg is the pivot point. The hip bump is a subtle move. Some people think of it in terms of a more active, conscious move. Bump the hips and then you're set up to make a good downswing. Others consider the hip bump as an unconscious move based on how your start your downswing from the top. Like throwing a ball, your lower body braces for the transition; the hip bump just happens. Whichever school of thought works for you is cool. I am of the latter school of thought. Stick with your coach.

Is the thought of "keeping the club behind the body" yours? In my opinion you should think about keeping the club in front of your chest or between your shoulders. The shoulder turn brings the club behind and inside where it was at address but not behind your body so to speak at least not your upper body. Letting your club slide behind your back shoulder too much is also a cause for an over the top move because your back shoulder/arms throw out to catch up to the body turn.

[bahamaman]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

After seeing my swing many times on video, I can relate to everything your saying. I'll try to remember the part about trying to visualize the club in the center of my chest instead of back behind me. I could clearly see my club passing behind my right shoulder hence, casting; OTT. Anymore visualizations would be of great help. Thanx.

[vp27519]

Re: Why is so hard to teach us to swing from the inside?

It is a visual key for mine. As you know feel and real are two different things.

I use this key because it stops my shoulders turning around at the top of the downswing and bringing the club over at the top.

What I am working on is trying to bring the club down the inside - my visual key helps me do that.

The hip bump/jolt/slide forward is done with my left side. It helps initiate the swing and transfer weight. It also helps the feel of the club coming from the inside.

The feel of holding the hands back at the top helps my visual key. Now it's only a feel, infact, there is no delay.

Actually video shows I am on plane throughout the swing, from wo to go.