No More Lessons!!!

[jamesh]

Re: No More Lessons!!! - Five Lessons

I would strongly recommend getting Ben Hogan’s book Five Lessons. I first learned about this book from this site. Even thought I took lessons – once a week all summer long – this book changed the game for me. It is inexpensive – under $10.00 and the illustrations are brilliant – although I have many golf books, encyclopedias, DVDs, et cetera – not one of them – including Tigers book – was as helpful and forthright as Hogan’s Five Lessons.

Although I was taking lessons, I was having an awful time with my utility woods. So, I took the book to the driving range with me, and I would read a little, look at the pictures and do EXACTLY as the good book said – problems gone. For me, the problem with my utility woods was my swing plane. It was too steep.



James

[takinitdeep]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Puleez, Jamesh-5 lessons has been a basic must have book for 50 years; my father and I used to watch Hogan and I have an autographed original.

[jamesh]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Puleez, Jamesh-5 lessons has been a basic must have book for 50 years; my father and I used to watch Hogan and I have an autographed original.

I am glad we are in agreement - an autographed copy - way to go!

James

[vp27519]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Stick with it. One needs to be committed.

Unfortunately though, I am quite an analytical person at heart. Too much knowledge can be adverse. There have been times I wished I never had lessons.

I started having them because I wanted to improve, execute shots and be the best I can.

Good luck and keep your chin up.

[edshaw]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

I can tell you the worst thing people
do, and that is to go the the driving
range and keep hitting balls until they
find the swing that makes the ball go
the furthest. That will be the swing they
take to the golf course, and, a recipe for
disaster.

[SuperGolferMan]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Hey, I understand what you are going through! If you are working on things that you truly BELIEVE in...you have to stick with it! It takes Tiger Woods almost a year each time he makes big swing changes and he is the man! The key to all of it is being patient and seeing the big picture which is...you want to get better and kick some butt on the course!

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

I can tell you the worst thing people
do, and that is to go the the driving
range and keep hitting balls until they
find the swing that makes the ball go
the furthest. That will be the swing they
take to the golf course, and, a recipe for
disaster.

So what's the best thing people can do?

In my book, "going to the range and keep hitting balls until they find the swing that makes the ball go furthest" is precisely the best thing people can do. I call it "practice". So, if practice is the worse thing people can do, what's the best thing people can do?

Let's say it is the worse thing people can do, let's think this through so we understand exactly what you mean.

So, if going to the range to do all this is the worse thing people can do, what's the best thing people can do. Go elsewhere?

If "keep hitting balls until..." is the worse, what's the best. Hit only 10 balls? Only 1 ball?

If "...until they find the swing...ball go furthest" is the wrong thing people can do, what's the best thing people can do. "...ball go shortest"?

From the beginnings of time, people have gone to the range to practice all kinds of activities from throwing a spear to shooting a gun. They kept on doing it "until they found the swing that worked". What's so different in golf now?

Nothing.

I read that Moe Norman once said that at some point early in his career, he had found his "move" and that now all he had to do was make it stronger. That sounds exactly like he had practiced quite a bit to find that move and practiced even more to make it stronger. Look at the results he produced.

Practice until you find what works. Then practice that until you can do it perfectly. Practice is the best thing people can do in order to learn how to do some thing.

[BrianW]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

(I think we have been here before)

I am a bit of a people watcher, when I am at the range or playing the course I spend a bit of time observing peoples golf swings. I see the same people at the range week in week out, year in year out practising the same swing faults.

Sometimes they are trying something new, like making yet another correction to a basically flawed golf swing, telling their mates they have now sorted the golf swing, of course they haven't and back they come for another session on the treadmill.

The biggest problems I see in these people are poor weight transfer, swinging off plane, poor setup and alignment, poor balance due to posture and swinging much too fast, a complete lack of understanding how the body should be used to position the club and generate power.

Now! it seems to me that most of these people need something to point them in the right direction, to clarify what it is they should be doing so that they can then shortcut a method of evolution or survival of the fittest. Most get some benefit from golf lessons, some can learn from books, videos, some from observing others, not many learn quickly from trial and error.

Practice is necessary, it's fundamental to improvement, it is a way of perfecting and ingraining the correct things, it is also a way of ingraining the wrong things. Take the shortcut to evolution, learn by others hard work then build it into your technically correct but individual system.

[Scragger63]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

(I think we have been here before).

Yes Brian, I too think we've been here before......

Mental Note to Self: Stop Practicing hooking balls into the trees......

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

(I think we have been here before)

I am a bit of a people watcher, when I am at the range or playing the course I spend a bit of time observing peoples golf swings. I see the same people at the range week in week out, year in year out practising the same swing faults.

Sometimes they are trying something new, like making yet another correction to a basically flawed golf swing, telling their mates they have now sorted the golf swing, of course they haven't and back they come for another session on the treadmill.

The biggest problems I see in these people are poor weight transfer, swinging off plane, poor setup and alignment, poor balance due to posture and swinging much too fast, a complete lack of understanding how the body should be used to position the club and generate power.

Now! it seems to me that most of these people need something to point them in the right direction, to clarify what it is they should be doing so that they can then shortcut a method of evolution or survival of the fittest. Most get some benefit from golf lessons, some can learn from books, videos, some from observing others, not many learn quickly from trial and error.

Practice is necessary, it's fundamental to improvement, it is a way of perfecting and ingraining the correct things, it is also a way of ingraining the wrong things. Take the shortcut to evolution, learn by others hard work then build it into your technically correct but individual system.

Practice is the _only_ way of "perfecting and ingraining the correct things".

What is the wrong thing to practice, then? What is the right thing to practice?

What if everything you practiced was the wrong thing? What if it was because you believed that whatever you were doing, you had to do it this way? What if because of that, you could never do the right thing because it would be contrary to your beliefs and thus you'd never try it even once just for kicks?

I may not see the flaws in others that you see, but I certainly see this flaw in everybody equally.

Either try nothing because it's "the wrong thing" or try everything and keep what works, discard what doesn't. I know which method allows me to learn and which prevents me from learning anything at all.

There may be a shortcut to evolution. But if there's one thing I'm certain of, it's that there is no shortcut to learning on one's own. What I learned on my own, I now know very well indeed. And that, by the way, I learned on my own.

[BrianW]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Martin,

So we both believe that practice is very important. That's out of the way then.

You ask "What is the wrong thing to practice, then? What is the right thing to practice?" Do you really want me to list them? I have seen your swing and by- and - large you do the right things, you know! Grip, setup, backswing, keep your downswing on the inside, correct use of hips, shoulders, square impact etc etc, these are the right things to practice, I am sure you don't want me to list a number of wrong things. Hopefully we are both agreed on this as well.

So what do we disagree on? You seem to me (and I know you will correct me if I have this wrong) to prefer people learning on their own by trial and error, if something does not work try something else, then work on that. I recommend people starting off with lessons and practising the fundamentals they are taught.

That's it then: Vive Le Difference eh! agree to disagree.

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Martin,

So we both believe that practice is very important. That's out of the way then.

You ask "What is the wrong thing to practice, then? What is the right thing to practice?" Do you really want me to list them? I have seen your swing and by- and - large you do the right things, you know! Grip, setup, backswing, keep your downswing on the inside, correct use of hips, shoulders, square impact etc etc, these are the right things to practice, I am sure you don't want me to list a number of wrong things. Hopefully we are both agreed on this as well.

So what do we disagree on? You seem to me (and I know you will correct me if I have this wrong) to prefer people learning on their own by trial and error, if something does not work try something else, then work on that. I recommend people starting off with lessons and practising the fundamentals they are taught.

That's it then: Vive Le Difference eh! agree to disagree.

A wise man once said: "the imperatives should dictate the components, not the other way around"

I agree with brian, learn to do it right first.

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

A wise man once said: "the imperatives should dictate the components, not the other way around"

I agree with brian, learn to do it right first.

And what are the imperatives and what are the components? Bear in mind that golf is a "player and club and ball" game, not simply a "player and club" or a "player and ball" game. As such, the interaction between the club and the ball is of greater importance to do right than the interaction between the player and the club.

If all you did was practice making the interaction between club and ball as precise as you could, then that's all you'd need to play well. If, on the other hand, you focused on the interaction between player and club without so much regard for the interaction between club and ball, you'd be practicing a very long time and still not play well enough to send the ball to the target using a club.

You may "learn to do it right" on your own through practice. In fact, you may learn much quicker this way since you will not be hampered by all the dos and don'ts of established methods. You will do the wrong things but will do them only insofar that it will allow you to learn from them. If, on the other hand, you prefer to learn from an established method, you may fall into the common trap that is "right and wrong" and persist in doing the wrong thing precisely because you don't want to do the wrong thing at all costs. The cost, in this case, is a very lengthy learning period from which very little is learned, by the way. Except perhaps that we've been going about it the wrong way from the start.

The risk of doing something wrong is much less if we learn on our own than the risk of falling into that common trap if we learn the established methods.

Please have a look at any practice range. Meet the people practicing there and ask them what they are practicing. Then ask them if they are willing to try the wrong thing for a change. The most frequent thing I hear is "you shouldn't do that". The most frequent thing I'd prefer to hear is "I want to be more precise".

I prefer to learn the right things at all costs. The cost, in this case, is doing the wrong things.

[Scragger63]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

At the risk of being frivilous (who me....????)

I guess, that taking Martin's line of argument one step further, then each day that goes by, I am getting very very good at not robbing banks and not having car crashes. I appear to be practicing these two things each and every day of my life without even thinking about it....

After 45 years, I guess I'm pretty good by now......


Cheers

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

And what are the imperatives and what are the components? Bear in mind that golf is a "player and club and ball" game, not simply a "player and club" or a "player and ball" game. As such, the interaction between the club and the ball is of greater importance to do right than the interaction between the player and the club.

If all you did was practice making the interaction between club and ball as precise as you could, then that's all you'd need to play well. If, on the other hand, you focused on the interaction between player and club without so much regard for the interaction between club and ball, you'd be practicing a very long time and still not play well enough to send the ball to the target using a club.

You may "learn to do it right" on your own through practice. In fact, you may learn much quicker this way since you will not be hampered by all the dos and don'ts of established methods. You will do the wrong things but will do them only insofar that it will allow you to learn from them. If, on the other hand, you prefer to learn from an established method, you may fall into the common trap that is "right and wrong" and persist in doing the wrong thing precisely because you don't want to do the wrong thing at all costs. The cost, in this case, is a very lengthy learning period from which very little is learned, by the way. Except perhaps that we've been going about it the wrong way from the start.

The risk of doing something wrong is much less if we learn on our own than the risk of falling into that common trap if we learn the established methods.

Please have a look at any practice range. Meet the people practicing there and ask them what they are practicing. Then ask them if they are willing to try the wrong thing for a change. The most frequent thing I hear is "you shouldn't do that". The most frequent thing I'd prefer to hear is "I want to be more precise".

I prefer to learn the right things at all costs. The cost, in this case, is doing the wrong things.

The 3 Imperatives of a Good Golf Swing

1. Flat left wrist at impact
2. Clubshaft on plane
3. Clubhead lag

I wish I had known #'s 1 and 3 6 years ago in the detail I know them now. It would have taken me about 5-6 months to become a low handicap player, but all the component talk of the clowns at my club, golf digest, golf magazine and too many of the "top 100" teachers had me wasting time with "flying right elbow, move the ball back, pull down from the top, start down with shoulders, swing in a barrell etc......IMO, had I known what IS most important first, I could have saved myself so much time and frustration. Most amatuers all over the world face the same, no doubt.