No More Lessons!!!

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

i did address the subject i posted a reply early on in the thread offering encouragement to the originator.
i might have the wrong word i thought it defined " a person with delusions of grandeur"

Are you implying that because you addressed the subject of this thread in the past that now you can just do as you please and start writing about the posters and give your opinion on their persons? If you do not know by now, what you are doing is a form of personal attack. I ask you to stop now, please. Thank you.

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

What exactly do I preach? And what is it from what I preach that I don't practice in the videos you've observed?

If you read carefully the details of each video, you will notice that I practice exactly what I preach: Proper contact. In both cases, dead center.

I bear to disagree with your observation:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/megalomaniac

Please note the definition, it's obviously not what you think it is. You may persist in discussing my person but at some point, the moderator will intervene and I'm sure that nobody here wants that.

I will put the question to you now, why don't you address the subject of this thread?

Hmmmmm, what was the direction the ball flew on those dead center hits?

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Hmmmmm, what was the direction the ball flew on those dead center hits?

If you wish to discuss that, there's a thread here:

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...ng-driver.html

Please note the details on the right hand side, click <more>.

[shootin4par]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Of course I am talking about learning to play good golf. I assumed thats what we are talking about here. Good golf implies consistency IMO.

there is a point on here that martin is trying to make that I agree with, there are points on here of others that I agree with. I think sometimes we look for exact wording to see if we agree or not. SOme people will say the color of grass is a combination of yellow and blue, then others will say no, the color is green. it is like two churches that believe the same but argue over the 1% of the doctrine that they disagree on.

hitting the ball center is the key, but golf clubs are also designed with a lead angle and the makers have known for a long time that coming in with the lead angle as it was intended will give you a much better chance of good results consistently. That means hands will be ahead at impact, and if that is the case then you will most likely have a flat left wrist. Anyone got any pics of pros who dont have forward shaft lean or a flat left wrist at impact? flipping just does not make it on tour is jbrunk main point and it is very valid. does that mean you have to think of the three things he said, no, if you focus on good contact, which is what martin is saying, then you will have them.

[lee roy fahey]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

as a golfer it should be required that each of us are required to have watched the movie "TIN CUP". Great movie, hope u have seen it.

what the hell does this have to do with your slice right?? In the movie is where u will find your answer. Roy (K. Costner sp??) is on the practice range at the US OPEN and cant do ANYTHING to stop shankin the ball. U can imagine the range of emotion and anxiety this puts on a golfer who is being sponsered by a toying company and the local dollar store in Salame, TX....the totality of all these thoughts and physical stressors play havvock on yours, mine, and yes the pros game too.

In your case I have a feeling you have been playing the game less then 5 years. you gut a shit load of lessons and are criticing every wrinkle your skin makes when you go to hit that silly ball. Close? Not Even close?

heres my advice - get more visual and less mechanical. You spent the money on lessons and even though u may not be satisfied now, trust me your money is not going to waste. VISUAL FLUID AND FUN. Let the lessons sink in and concentrate on visualizing an improvment that may correct your slice. For example, pay attention to Davis Love III, watch how long his head stays down after impact...unbelievable. Excercises like that will force your hands and arms to naturally clear BEFORE your hips fire with your weight shift, thus helping you square the face at impact...keep your cool and most important work on your balance. Visualize a wall against your right leg (assum. ur rgt hnd) while taking the club back. THis will elliminate any sway or shift that may be attributing to your failure to square the club.

There are many more tips to try...if u need further help I am glad to try.
Remember..."fun god damn it"

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Hello All:

Interesting thread and for those that say Golf imitates life....well it sure does solidify that statement. Take a topic like religion, education, politics or something more important like the golf swing, add some varying viewpoints and watch the fightin start........good thing we're just online and not in a pub cause I'm thinkin there might have been some fists swingin .....should I use a flat left wrist for that too....

Seriously.....

An interesting point was brought up concerning those of us who started playing golf on our own without any formal instruction. There seemed to be some parallels about good athletic ability and being able to play reasonably well right out of the gates but eventually running into a brick wall. It seems at this crossroads, many of the stubborn among us decided to get serious and try to figure out this great game.

This got me to wondering why I was able to play so well and have such a great time early on without any instruction. I literally could drive the ball 260 yards straight to my target (without any established set-up routine) with fair consistency my first time on the course. It just felt natural...... ten finger grip, short choppy backswing and all. I just hit the ball. Granted, I shot over 100 when it was all said and done but the freedom I had with no real expectations or concept of how hard this game could (and would) be was exhillirating. I was hooked. After some trial and error with the sort game I was soon shooting in the low 80's..... "bad" swing and all.

Eventually something happened on my way to the 70's (score not decade) and the law of diminishing returns got hold of my golf game and I hit that brick wall. There where a few little problems. I had no concept of what I was really doing with my golf swing and mental clutter (expectations, memory of bad shots, expectations, trying to steer the ball, expectations...etc.) was sabotaging my ability to excell at and even worse have fun playing golf. This just made me try harder, swing harder, cuss harder & be no fun to play with harder. All were not helping.

So eventually after beating my head against that brick wall, I decided to learn a little about the golf swing. Concepts like plane, connection, neutral grip etc..where Greek to me. But I soon learned their importance. I became immersed in swing sequences, videos, books, mags and the evil demon Golf Channel. I was able to, using this information, break away from my old habits (probably the hardest thing to do), and develope a fundementally sound swing. It was like starting the game all over again but this time with a plan.

I am in no way trying to expound any definitive statement here but this is what I learned through this process. Again, this is my own perception.

1) Lessons from a qualified golf proffesional is a good idea at any point in your development but the sooner the better. Do some research to find out who is really good in this area of instruction. Don't expect the instructor to agree with what "your" idea of the golf swing should be. You are investing to be taught something at which you are not an expert. Tiger Woods has taken instruction from several teachers all of which he could beat 100% of the time.Tiger did not take these lessons because he was not good. He had to get better and he was not an expert on the integral workings of the golf swing.

2) You have to find a way to be technical from an understanding of your golf swing but be able to leave that in the recesses of your concious and be target motivated while on the course. If you ask Butch Harmon or Hank Haney about Tigers current knowledge of the technical aspects of the swing they will say that it is unmatched by any player. Still, Tiger claims he is a "feel player". Tiger knows that being bogged down with the positions, and angles is not the way to get the ball in the hole.....ultimately. The birdie chip at the 16th for his last Masters win......." picked a spot and landed it there"... He knows how to compartmentalize technique and execution.

3) Patience, commitment and the desire to practice is key. So many times you read on these posts where a member tried something for a few shots and said it did not work for them. I don't recommend trying every swing key or method out there, but once you have a concept of the correct motions, you should be ready to spend some time getting those committed to muscle memory. One small bucket will not do. Again, a good teaching pro can help.

4) The golf swing is like clay. The good news is it can be changed and the bad news is it can change without notifying you. Bad habits can be broken but complete mastery of ball flight can not be achieved. Work toward repeatibility and soundness in your practice but be ready for change and adjustment both physically and mentally at any time.

5) Mentally understand that controlling any full swing shot is a result of not trying to controll at all. You have to be ok with the fact that the ball will not go to your target all the time. Simple to say not so easy to do. Still the cold reality is that any attempt to control your full swing shots will result in deceleration and that will destroy your shot most every time.
The one thing that I try to use from my first rounds of golf was that feeling of what I call blind confidence. I just hit the ball where I wanted it to go. It did not go there all the time then and that is still the case. We have three mental options when we stand over a shot. It will not go there, it might go there and it will go there. "It will go there" is your best option provided you are target motivated. Many golfers oddly enough are the opposite.

6) The Martins and CMays have good valid points and so do the Jeff's. I view my intellectuall golf self as following Jeff's advice but I still see that free swinging and easy going golf self as following along the Martin And CMays school of thought (even if only on the fringe). As in golf and life, we can make things as complicated or a simple as we wish. Somewhere in there you can hopefully find your game. It is after all a game and is supposed to be fun and rewarding. Same with golf.

[golfndawg]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

This is supposed to be a quote from above::::::::::Eventually something happened on my way to the 70's (score not decade) and the law of diminishing returns got hold of my golf game and I hit that brick wall. There where a few little problems. I had no concept of what I was really doing with my golf swing and mental clutter (expectations, memory of bad shots, expectations, trying to steer the ball, expectations...etc.) was sabotaging my ability to excell at and even worse have fun playing golf. This just made me try harder, swing harder, cuss harder & be no fun to play with harder.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

That is pretty much exactly where I'm at now.........I have spent so much time on the range,around the greens etc.........That I'm kinda freaked out to go play. I haven't played a round in 2 mths(I hit balls everyday). Still no confidence to go play because of expectations.Kinda sad but I guess I'm an over achiever.......

[BeeJay]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Hello All:

Interesting thread and for those that say Golf imitates life....well it sure does solidify that statement. Take a topic like religion, education, politics or something more important like the golf swing, add some varying viewpoints and watch the fightin start........good thing we're just online and not in a pub cause I'm thinkin there might have been some fists swingin .....should I use a flat left wrist for that too....

Seriously.....

An interesting point was brought up concerning those of us who started playing golf on our own without any formal instruction. There seemed to be some parallels about good athletic ability and being able to play reasonably well right out of the gates but eventually running into a brick wall. It seems at this crossroads, many of the stubborn among us decided to get serious and try to figure out this great game.

This got me to wondering why I was able to play so well and have such a great time early on without any instruction. I literally could drive the ball 260 yards straight to my target (without any established set-up routine) with fair consistency my first time on the course. It just felt natural...... ten finger grip, short choppy backswing and all. I just hit the ball. Granted, I shot over 100 when it was all said and done but the freedom I had with no real expectations or concept of how hard this game could (and would) be was exhillirating. I was hooked. After some trial and error with the sort game I was soon shooting in the low 80's..... "bad" swing and all.

Eventually something happened on my way to the 70's (score not decade) and the law of diminishing returns got hold of my golf game and I hit that brick wall. There where a few little problems. I had no concept of what I was really doing with my golf swing and mental clutter (expectations, memory of bad shots, expectations, trying to steer the ball, expectations...etc.) was sabotaging my ability to excell at and even worse have fun playing golf. This just made me try harder, swing harder, cuss harder & be no fun to play with harder. All were not helping.

So eventually after beating my head against that brick wall, I decided to learn a little about the golf swing. Concepts like plane, connection, neutral grip etc..where Greek to me. But I soon learned their importance. I became immersed in swing sequences, videos, books, mags and the evil demon Golf Channel. I was able to, using this information, break away from my old habits (probably the hardest thing to do), and develope a fundementally sound swing. It was like starting the game all over again but this time with a plan.

I am in no way trying to expound any definitive statement here but this is what I learned through this process. Again, this is my own perception.

1) Lessons from a qualified golf proffesional is a good idea at any point in your development but the sooner the better. Do some research to find out who is really good in this area of instruction. Don't expect the instructor to agree with what "your" idea of the golf swing should be. You are investing to be taught something at which you are not an expert. Tiger Woods has taken instruction from several teachers all of which he could beat 100% of the time.Tiger did not take these lessons because he was not good. He had to get better and he was not an expert on the integral workings of the golf swing.

2) You have to find a way to be technical from an understanding of your golf swing but be able to leave that in the recesses of your concious and be target motivated while on the course. If you ask Butch Harmon or Hank Haney about Tigers current knowledge of the technical aspects of the swing they will say that it is unmatched by any player. Still, Tiger claims he is a "feel player". Tiger knows that being bogged down with the positions, and angles is not the way to get the ball in the hole.....ultimately. The birdie chip at the 16th for his last Masters win......." picked a spot and landed it there"... He knows how to compartmentalize technique and execution.

3) Patience, commitment and the desire to practice is key. So many times you read on these posts where a member tried something for a few shots and said it did not work for them. I don't recommend trying every swing key or method out there, but once you have a concept of the correct motions, you should be ready to spend some time getting those committed to muscle memory. One small bucket will not do. Again, a good teaching pro can help.

4) The golf swing is like clay. The good news is it can be changed and the bad news is it can change without notifying you. Bad habits can be broken but complete mastery of ball flight can not be achieved. Work toward repeatibility and soundness in your practice but be ready for change and adjustment both physically and mentally at any time.

5) Mentally understand that controlling any full swing shot is a result of not trying to controll at all. You have to be ok with the fact that the ball will not go to your target all the time. Simple to say not so easy to do. Still the cold reality is that any attempt to control your full swing shots will result in deceleration and that will destroy your shot most every time.
The one thing that I try to use from my first rounds of golf was that feeling of what I call blind confidence. I just hit the ball where I wanted it to go. It did not go there all the time then and that is still the case. We have three mental options when we stand over a shot. It will not go there, it might go there and it will go there. "It will go there" is your best option provided you are target motivated. Many golfers oddly enough are the opposite.

6) The Martins and CMays have good valid points and so do the Jeff's. I view my intellectuall golf self as following Jeff's advice but I still see that free swinging and easy going golf self as following along the Martin And CMays school of thought (even if only on the fringe). As in golf and life, we can make things as complicated or a simple as we wish. Somewhere in there you can hopefully find your game. It is after all a game and is supposed to be fun and rewarding. Same with golf.

Timothy,

What a refreshing intelligent post. Like a breath of fresh air.

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!




Hi, I am a golf club. I am designed with a specific lie angle and a forward leaning shaft when soled squarely. To hit me squarely (consistently) requires your hands to be ahead of my clubhead when I strike the ball. Best of luck.

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Hey Golfndog & Bee J:

Thanks for the follow up posts.

Beej, I'm wondering what is "motivating" you not to get out on the course. You mention getting out to the range and practice greens which is great but you said no rounds in the past two months. Is this from frustration or some other reason? When I was in a slump trying to get my game back together, I sort of avoided game situations myself for a while. I would get invited to play in some outings at great courses but passed because my confidence was low. All the while I was making what I knew was good improvement at the range but I still did not have the confidence to take it to the course. One of the the biggest mental blocks for golfers is fear of failure in front of others. In golf we are often playing with friends and aquaintances which would seem like a good thing, but when struggling adds extra pressure.

Do not stay away from the course too much longer. Even if you can get out to play 9 holes on your own you need to be swinging at golf targets that can only be realized on the course. Next best would be to play with strangers who are beginners to reduce pressure. In fact I found that when playing with beginners, it helped reinforce the idea that the game is not that complicated. The one thing not to do is play with really great players at this stage of getting things back together. When you get your confidence back, playing with scratch golfers can be helpfull but probably not at this time.

On the range make sure that you hit to specific targets and with the driver, pick a reasonable landing area that is well shy in distance of your usuall carry and roll distance. If you hit the ball a total of 250 on average pick a thirty yard wide landing area about 200 from the tee and just groove your swing. Make sure you hit all other shots to specific reasonable length targets as well. This way you are making productive use of your time and will have the ability to translate these swings to the course.

Just one technical note: Attempt to swing through the ball and concentrate on your balanced finish on all shots. Before you swing, have a mental picture of the finish position with the weight shifted to the left foot, up on the right toe and your knees together. Belt buckle should face the target on short irons and be left of target on full long clubs. Your back should be turned further around then your hips. To acheive this position it will aid you in making many other good moves in your swing and prevents the hit impulse.

Good luck

[BeeJay]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Hey Golfndog & Bee J:

Thanks for the follow up posts.

Beej, I'm wondering what is "motivating" you not to get out on the course. You mention getting out to the range and practice greens which is great but you said no rounds in the past two months. Is this from frustration or some other reason? When I was in a slump trying to get my game back together, I sort of avoided game situations myself for a while. I would get invited to play in some outings at great courses but passed because my confidence was low. All the while I was making what I knew was good improvement at the range but I still did not have the confidence to take it to the course. One of the the biggest mental blocks for golfers is fear of failure in front of others. In golf we are often playing with friends and aquaintances which would seem like a good thing, but when struggling adds extra pressure.

Do not stay away from the course too much longer. Even if you can get out to play 9 holes on your own you need to be swinging at golf targets that can only be realized on the course. Next best would be to play with strangers who are beginners to reduce pressure. In fact I found that when playing with beginners, it helped reinforce the idea that the game is not that complicated. The one thing not to do is play with really great players at this stage of getting things back together. When you get your confidence back, playing with scratch golfers can be helpfull but probably not at this time.

On the range make sure that you hit to specific targets and with the driver, pick a reasonable landing area that is well shy in distance of your usuall carry and roll distance. If you hit the ball a total of 250 on average pick a thirty yard wide landing area about 200 from the tee and just groove your swing. Make sure you hit all other shots to specific reasonable length targets as well. This way you are making productive use of your time and will have the ability to translate these swings to the course.

Just one technical note: Attempt to swing through the ball and concentrate on your balanced finish on all shots. Before you swing, have a mental picture of the finish position with the weight shifted to the left foot, up on the right toe and your knees together. Belt buckle should face the target on short irons and be left of target on full long clubs. Your back should be turned further around then your hips. To acheive this position it will aid you in making many other good moves in your swing and prevents the hit impulse.

Good luck

Timothy,
I think you mixed me up with Dawg.