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**shootin4par** · 02-24-2007, 09:27 AM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

yes matt your head is all over the place. to me your swing looks like a somewhat controlled fall because you have big ballance issuses. You lunge onto your left side rathat than shift and rotate there. your set up looks off balance. If I walked up from behind and pushed you, you would fall forward very easy. The positives are that you have learned the most important thing in golf, besides enjoying yourself, and that is how to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible. So if you can do it that well now, when you fix some things you will do it much better.

since you are a feel player then if you can feel how set up affects your swing you may decide to adjust it. here are a couple of drills to experiment with, report back if you would like further assistance
good luck matt

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...hit-today.html
http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...rds-today.html
http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...-easy-way.html

**Robert O' Keeffe** · 02-24-2007, 11:08 AM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Matt,

I dont profess to being a golf guru, but the one point of advice I would offer to you would be to slow everything down. The more you rush it the more goes wrong. At least if you slow it down and create a new tempo, you can then analyse the whole swing movement from start to finish.

**Jeff Mann** · 02-24-2007, 01:37 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Matt

Here is my personal analysis of your swing.

Your major problem is reverse pivoting.

You start the takeaway incorrectly by moving your central torso (navel area) at the same time as you move your arms and shoulder. That causes you to tilt your torso to the left into a reverse pivot position at the very start of the backswing (see first face-on video).

See question number 9 in the backswing section of my review at http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/backswing.htm

You are doing what Leslie King calls a one piece takeaway. You need to start the takeaway with a left shoulder rotation and arm movement - but don't allow your torso to tilt. I would recommend that you pre-tilt your spine to the right at address, and then deliberately rotate your left shoulder down and to the right (at right angles to the bent-over spine) and get the distinct feeling that your spine increases its tilt to the right side (away from the target) as the backswing evolves.

Second problem

See - http://jeffmann.net/Matt.jpg

Image 1 - you aggravate your reverse pivot problem by overswinging with your arms. Your left arm is pointing to 11:30 o'clock. You should stop your backswing when the left arm is at 10:30 o'clock.

Image 2 - Consider the effect of being in a reverse pivot position. You start the downswing with a good hip transition move. In fact, it is too good. Your hips square and shift to the left, but in the meantime your upper torso (which was tilted to the left at the end-backswing) is now moving away from the target and tilting to the right, and your upper torso cannot keep up with your hips. Image 2 - is where your spine and left arm should be at the end of the backswing.

Image 3 - note that your hips are too open at this point in the dowswing and your lower body has outraced your upper body causing you to cast and lose your wrist lag. Your upper torso cannot keep up with your hips because your upper torso first had to move away from the target (to correct the reverse pivot spine tilt from leftwards to rightwards) before it could move downwards to the ball.

Image 4 - Down-the-line view showing that the clubshaft comes over the upper part of your right upper arm, and then steeply down to the ball in an outside-in direction. That high clubshaft path is due to the fact that you were in a reverse pivot position.

See this Brady Riggs video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvOr5...elated&search=

Note that there is no room to swing down along a shallow, inside-out swingpath if one is in a reverse pivot position. You have "no space" to drop your club into when you start the downswing, plus your upper torso is tilted towards the target. By the time you correct your spine tilt, your hips are far ahead, and your upper body has fallen back away from the target (image 3). You cannot hit powerfully when your upper body has fallen away from the target.

You need to practice a good backswing pivot hip movement that gets your right hip to move slightly to the left (like Brady Riggs suggests) and that also causes your spine to be tilted far to the right at the end-backswing position (like Brady Riggs). Also, remember to pre-tilt your spine to the right at address and remember to turn your left shoulder down and to the right at the start of the backswing, so that your spine is definitely tilted to the right at the end-backswing position, and that your left upper back slopes upwards to the right. Also shorten your backswing by ensuring that your arms stop moving at the same time as your shoulders stop turning.

Jeff.

**Matt10** · 02-24-2007, 03:48 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Originally posted by shootin4par

yes matt your head is all over the place. to me your swing looks like a somewhat controlled fall because you have big ballance issuses. You lunge onto your left side rathat than shift and rotate there. your set up looks off balance. If I walked up from behind and pushed you, you would fall forward very easy. The positives are that you have learned the most important thing in golf, besides enjoying yourself, and that is how to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible. So if you can do it that well now, when you fix some things you will do it much better.

since you are a feel player then if you can feel how set up affects your swing you may decide to adjust it. here are a couple of drills to experiment with, report back if you would like further assistance
good luck matt

http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...hit-today.html
http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...rds-today.html
http://www.golf-tuition-online.com/g...-easy-way.html

Thanks Shootin. My stability is a big-time issue and there's no doubt my lil sister could knock me down.

Thanks for those links, I've already tried them out before, but forgot to post my results. My feeling is that with less-bent knees and stomach muscles working, my stability seems to strengthen.

Originally posted by Robert O' Keeffe

Matt,

I dont profess to being a golf guru, but the one point of advice I would offer to you would be to slow everything down. The more you rush it the more goes wrong. At least if you slow it down and create a new tempo, you can then analyse the whole swing movement from start to finish.

Thanks Robert, I always appreciate your opinion. You're absolutely right about my tempo, it's fast and appears more jerky than it does smooth. I'm trying my best to be bale to achieve the proper transitional phase without being so quick. It seems I have alot more to practice than I though.

Jeff, I really appreciate the segmented pictures - believe it or not, I did the same exact thing; and since I'm no expert, I missed out on alot of what you said. I'll post my response to each of your image descriptions.

See - http://jeffmann.net/Matt.jpg

Image 1 - you aggravate your reverse pivot problem by overswinging with your arms. Your left arm is pointing to 11:30 o'clock. You should stop your backswing when the left arm is at 10:30 o'clock.

This is a huge problem that I'm obviously aware of. Would you suggest gluing my arms, or staying connected in a way, to my chest/pectorals in order to keep the backswing shorter?

Image 2 - Consider the effect of being in a reverse pivot position. You start the downswing with a good hip transition move. In fact, it is too good. Your hips square and shift to the left, but in the meantime your upper torso (which was tilted to the left at the end-backswing) is now moving away from the target and tilting to the right, and your upper torso cannot keep up with your hips. Image 2 - is where your spine and left arm should be at the end of the backswing.

Got it. Too Good,huh? That always sounds nice. But I get what you're saying - this is all as a result to poor setup and swaying to the right, correct?

Image 3 - note that your hips are too open at this point in the dowswing and your lower body has outraced your upper body causing you to cast and lose your wrist lag. Your upper torso cannot keep up with your hips because your upper torso first had to move away from the target (to correct the reverse pivot spine tilt from leftwards to rightwards) before it could move downwards to the ball.
This is my 'Aha' moment, Jeff. I've always wondered why I can't maintain a consistent wrist lag and end up casting. I always had a feeling I was reverse pivoting,thanks for pointing it out here because this is the part that always baffles me. A note about my address, I actually was focusing on a spine-tilt to the right, my imaginary ball position is a bit off which could lead one to think I'm not tilting my spine. Should I put even more emphasis on the tilt to the right?

Image 4 - Down-the-line view showing that the clubshaft comes over the upper part of your right upper arm, and then steeply down to the ball in an outside-in direction. That high clubshaft path is due to the fact that you were in a reverse pivot position.

Thanks for the video, that makes me understand alot more than before. My only question here is, whre should I focus my backswing? Meaning, should I focus on keeping my right side to create space or just let the arms go along for the ride both ways (backswing and downswing)? The difference in feel between swaying and rotating on the backswing is very different and distinct. I feel alot more in control using the rotating rather than the swaying, obviously.

Once again, thanks to everyone for their input - I am really grateful. I'm excited to get back out there with the video camera and hopefully I can get things right. I understand this will be a difficult process as my bad habits seem to be hard to get rid of.

**shootin4par** · 02-24-2007, 04:42 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

matt, I will add some more
why is your tempo fast? because your body is out of balance and is trying to balance yourself. that is why your swing is jerky. do you feel the weight on the outside of your right foot at the top of the backswing? If you do not then you are not swaying. Matt there is a difference between a reverse pivot and compound pivot. They look close to the same but are a world apart as far as helping you hit balls. Many great players compound pivot and some of the longest. it is ok to lead the bakswing with the lower body fefore the arms, that is how you woud wind up for a baseball throw, to cast a fishing pole, etc... A large part of the golfing world does not know the difference between reverse and compound.

**Jeff Mann** · 02-24-2007, 05:03 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

I have placed answers in each section.

Image 1 - you aggravate your reverse pivot problem by overswinging with your arms. Your left arm is pointing to 11:30 o'clock. You should stop your backswing when the left arm is at 10:30 o'clock.

This is a huge problem that I'm obviously aware of. Would you suggest gluing my arms, or staying connected in a way, to my chest/pectorals in order to keep the backswing shorter?

Answer: No. Never try connecting your arms to your chest. See the takeaway subsection of my backswing review. I specifically state that the arms should move freely (somewhat independently) of the body. You should concentrate on timing the arm swing and the shoulder turn - so that the arms stop swinging when the shoulder turn is complete. It's a "feeling" issue.

Image 2 - Consider the effect of being in a reverse pivot position. You start the downswing with a good hip transition move. In fact, it is too good. Your hips square and shift to the left, but in the meantime your upper torso (which was tilted to the left at the end-backswing) is now moving away from the target and tilting to the right, and your upper torso cannot keep up with your hips. Image 2 - is where your spine and left arm should be at the end of the backswing.

Got it. Too Good,huh? That always sounds nice. But I get what you're saying - this is all as a result to poor setup and swaying to the right, correct?

Answer: No, it's not primarily related to your setup. All I am saying is that your upper torso is in a reverse pivot position at the end of your backswing, and that you start the downswing with a good hip transition move. However, your right elbow cannot drop down to your right hip and your clubshaft cannot drop down into a shallow plane position (called "dropping into the slot") in response to the initiating hip shift movement - because your upper torso is tilted to the left, and your upper body still has to shift to the right before it can drop downwards in response to the initiating hip shift-squaring movement.

Image 3 - note that your hips are too open at this point in the dowswing and your lower body has outraced your upper body causing you to cast and lose your wrist lag. Your upper torso cannot keep up with your hips because your upper torso first had to move away from the target (to correct the reverse pivot spine tilt from leftwards to rightwards) before it could move downwards to the ball.

This is my 'Aha' moment, Jeff. I've always wondered why I can't maintain a consistent wrist lag and end up casting. I always had a feeling I was reverse pivoting,thanks for pointing it out here because this is the part that always baffles me. A note about my address, I actually was focusing on a spine-tilt to the right, my imaginary ball position is a bit off which could lead one to think I'm not tilting my spine. Should I put even more emphasis on the tilt to the right?

Answer: You definitely need to feel that your spine is pre-tilted to the right, without exaggerating the situation. It is more important to feel that the spine is tilting more to the right as the backswing evolves, and that your left upper back is sloping up to the right at the end of the backswing.

Image 4 - Down-the-line view showing that the clubshaft comes over the upper part of your right upper arm, and then steeply down to the ball in an outside-in direction. That high clubshaft path is due to the fact that you were in a reverse pivot position.

Thanks for the video, that makes me understand alot more than before. My only question here is, whre should I focus my backswing? Meaning, should I focus on keeping my right side to create space or just let the arms go along for the ride both ways (backswing and downswing)? The difference in feel between swaying and rotating on the backswing is very different and distinct. I feel alot more in control using the rotating rather than the swaying, obviously.

Answer: I don't know what you mean by stating "keeping my right side to create space", and I don't know what you mean by stating "just let the arms go along for the ride both ways". You should definitely not sway in the backswing. There should be a distinct feeling of rotating your left shoulder at right angles to the bent-over spine, while at the same time increasing the rightwards angulation of the spine => so that you get your left shoulder behind the ball.

Your spine should definitely be tilted to the right at the end of the backswing, like Nick Faldo's spine in this next photo

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/Faldo-EndBS.jpg

Note that Faldo's spine is definitely tilted to the right, and that his left upper back slopes upwards to the right.

Jeff.

**Matt10** · 02-24-2007, 05:03 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Shootin, it's definitely on the outside of my right foot at the top. I read something about the compound pivot in one of the forums that you and Cmays were typing about in one of these threads. It was about how at the top of your backswing, lift up your right heel to perform a proper weight shift down. I could be wrong and missing alot of details - but I think that's what I read.

I'm going to go outside, in the rain, and record some things. The videos that Jeff provided are very helpful - that Brady Riggs covers some real good points that are concerning me at the moment.

**Matt10** · 02-24-2007, 05:41 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Here I focused on mainly correcting the reverse pivot. It feels different like I said, but more powerful and in control.

I notice right off the bat that my overswinging problem is still there. This is why I was thinking of gluing my left arm to my chest in a way of preventing the overswinging.

I also forgot to focus on moving my left shoulder down and to the right, but I remembered to move my arms first and rotate as best as possible.

Download:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/28/705131/ugh2.wmv

Stream:

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...rrent=ugh2.flv

**Matt10** · 02-24-2007, 06:33 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

I found this article in search for a 'compact swing'. It seems to shorten the backswing, I might give it a try - although a wider stance might not be the answer since noone addressed it in the prevoius video.

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...,,93_3_ph.html

**jambalaya** · 02-24-2007, 06:37 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Your problems sound so much like my problems. The reverse pivot has always been a huge problem for me. Shootin' talks about a compound pivot but I just understand it yet. My comment, everything in your current swing is controlled by your arm swing. I think you turn your shoulders with your arms and you have to force yourself to follow through. I am just on the cusp of working out some of my problems so I am probably not one to listen to as much as the others. My suggestion is to lose all the tension in your shoulders, arms and grip and let your arms fly more freely around your body.

Read this to understand what I mean:

http://www.paulwilsongolf.com/golf_tip_16.htm

**shootin4par** · 02-24-2007, 06:52 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Explaiining the compound pivot is really hard,
I have something for both you to try and then report back
set up with a club and go slow motion
now from there turn back into your backswing using muscles on the right side of your hips, then on the downswing use the muscles on the left side of your hips

Now set up again. this time on the back swing use the muscles from the left side lower back, then use the muscles from the right side lower back on the downswing.

this is very hard to explain over the internet. So try that and become aware of your body and what it is doing. if you learn how to isolate muscles you can fire the correct ones and make the swing easier.

Jam and matt, report back on those two if you would please
enjoy the journey
seeker

**Jeff Mann** · 02-24-2007, 07:00 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

I decided not to go to the trouble of analysing your swing again because it looks the same.

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/AB-StretchedBS.jpg

Note that Aaron Baddeley's hands are outside his feet at the end-backswing. You overswing and drive your hands inside a vertical line above your right foot. Your fast tempo and overswinging drives your upper body into a reverse pivot.

Look again at the Brady Riggs video and note how his spine is tilted to the right at the end of his backswing. Practice your swing in slow motion and "feel" your spine position. You must "feel" that you spine is tilting to the right throughout the backswing and that it is distinctly tilted to the right at the end backswing position. Stop at the end of your backswing - and ask yourself whether you have "created space" beneath your right shoulder like Brady Riggs. Then drop a vertical line from the outer edge of the left hand to the ground. Is that vertical line about 3-6" outside your right foot? If not, you are probably overswinging and reverse pivoting.

The difference is subtle, but here is a good backswing pivot (on the left) and a reverse pivot (on the right)

See - http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/ManzellaPivot.jpg

Look at the difference in hand position.

Jeff.

**Matt10** · 02-24-2007, 07:30 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Jam, thanks for the link - that's pretty interesting. I'll give it a try.

Shootin, will do sir.

Jeff, I was going to post another after doing Jam's link, but am going to try one more time on slowing things down. My thoughts this entire time was to have loose arms on the backswing and downswing, but it's obvious that method is not working.

**jambalaya** · 02-24-2007, 08:10 PM

Re: Stupid Video Swing Recording!

Originally posted by Matt10

Here I focused on mainly correcting the reverse pivot. It feels different like I said, but more powerful and in control.

I notice right off the bat that my overswinging problem is still there. This is why I was thinking of gluing my left arm to my chest in a way of preventing the overswinging.

I also forgot to focus on moving my left shoulder down and to the right, but I remembered to move my arms first and rotate as best as possible.

Download:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/28/705131/ugh2.wmv

Stream:

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...rrent=ugh2.flv

The reverse pivot is still there. Maybe even worse. I know it is maddening but I experienced that too. There is something just very fundamental that causes you to reverse pivot. I wish I could give you some magic but I have changed so much about my swing I couldn't tell you one thing that would do the trick.

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