Are 4 magic moves magic?

[Neil18]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Your right - this site www.newgolfsing.com is pretty much the same text in my first post. Just been there and am starting to read through - pretty much the same as the free 60 page download I already have. Glad I didn't do my usual impulse purchase!! A free book - wow!

The Andy Brown site does though have some nice video and audio downloads.

I intend buying the 3 skills shortly so will carry out a compare in due course. In the meantime anyone who has the time (or inclination) to compare 3skills to Dantes theory at newgolfswing, definately interested in your views positive or negative

Fingers crossed they compliment each other nicely and I'll end up with the best of both worlds!

I will look forward to that comparison Wicket94.

[BrianW]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

OK, Now I am with it!

The New Golf swing is Joe Dante's swing method from around 40 years ago and yes I have read and tried it. I still incorporate his wrist break in delicate pitch shots.

His magic moves are :

His grip
His early wrist break
The club at the top
Downswing (COAM)

The system does work, the early wrist break gets you to the top nicely, ensuring good wrist hinge and an on plane position. It does tell you a lot of things not to do as well and there is nothing magic or new in any of the systems.

It is not at conflict with 3 skills at all if carried out correctly as the skills will be used. 3 Skills is also not at conflict with this system as it does not care how you swing as long as the clubhead conforms to the 3 skills through impact. Both systems try to steer you away from poor swingpaths like out to in.

[bruin]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Are there only 4?! I didn't count! How ever many "moves" there are, the feeling that the script gives over is very accurate. Well done Wicket for posting it!

Funny you should mention the "hitting down" part. I love that this text says that we don't hit down on the ball, but the downward strike comes from the correct timing of the movements. Lots of people on here could do with heeding this advice, given the number of threads that pop up on hitting down on the ball.

"Hit down on it" doesn't mean what it says. Hitting down on something is different to swinging a club through in such a manner that leads to a downward blow.

this is why i prefer the 3sk's to the free download you are currently reading. "hitting down" or "nailing it " it sums up the idea in two words , not two pages.

[Neil18]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

OK, Now I am with it!

The New Golf swing is Joe Dante's swing method from around 40 years ago and yes I have read and tried it. I still incorporate his wrist break in delicate pitch shots.

His magic moves are :

His grip
His early wrist break
The club at the top
Downswing (COAM)

The system does work, the early wrist break gets you to the top nicely, ensuring good wrist hinge and an on plane position. It does tell you a lot of things not to do as well and there is nothing magic or new in any of the systems.

It is not at conflict with 3 skills at all if carried out correctly as the skills will be used. 3 Skills is also not at conflict with this system as it does not care how you swing as long as the clubhead conforms to the 3 skills through impact. Both systems try to steer you away from poor swingpaths like out to in.

Sounds like they are one and the same communicated in a different way.

Nice.

That would explain the 3Skills sucess stories so far.

[BrianW]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Sounds like they are one and the same communicated in a different way.

Nice.

That would explain the 3Skills sucess stories so far.

Kinda the same! I think any swing sequence that brings the clubface into the ball on path, compressing the ball on the sweetspot with all clubs and creating effortless power as to powerless effort, is doing a good job. Any that don't or confuse the matter are not.

[jambalaya]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Ever notice how these golf instructions guides like "4 Magic Moves" have to straighten out so many other things in your swing before they actually get to the magic moves. Basically if you don't already have pretty good fundamentals these things don't work.

[bdbl]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Basically if you don't already have pretty good fundamentals these things don't work.

I'd agree with you there but to me what is interesting is how 3SKills addresses the fundamentals issue.

I got the book as part of the 2nd wave of purchasers following from the Forest of Arden boys and other early adopters like Brian and tbh didn't really get anywhere and came to the conclusion that the likes of Ian H , Brian W and [much as it hurt to admit it ] Slats were better golfers, had better fundamentals if you like, than me hence their ball striking was seeing improvements using the 3Skills.

I on the other hand was going backwards - if you have a far too steep angle of of attack with your driver plus a tendency to swing out to in from time to time then adding Skill 3 has a fairly catastrophic effect.

Now this is where it gets a bit chicken and eggish, fundamentals - 3 Skills - ball striking - fundamentals - 3 Skills etc.

I started practicing in the back garden with air balls just thinking of getting this lump of metal on the end of this stick to hit this ball from this direction at this angle - OK I exaggerate but I wasn't thinking about the takeaway, swing plane, the left arm connection, the wrist cup or cock, my hips etc because I was thinking about the what not the how.

As a result, on the range at least - I'm still having trouble letting go on the course - my driving has improved by leaps and bounds; applying SK1 & SK2 correctly appears to have fixed a fundamental problem for me. I suspect that reflects my learning style.

I'm reading a book called Mind Swings at the moment which argues for a mininimalist approach to the teaching of golf technique - almost like creating a permanent natural "beginners luck" framework to ones golf game, or putting another way emptying your mind of the how in order to achieve the what. The ideas seem to gel with the 3Sills concept and I'm hoping that they will help me "let go".

If 3Skills and Mind Swings help me achieve that next PB and a move towards my magic 80 then I'll report back.

[wicket94]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Ok - I've been reading these magic move guides, carried out a few practice swings indoors (yes - got into trouble on that one!) and just got back from the range trying to put things in place.

First reaction - the takeaway. very weird with an early wrist break and in the direction it says. I think I got it most times but definately different to my current takeaway.

Got into the backswing quite nicely and up to the top. The move down, starting with the hips is something I tried a while ago with no real success so I've been worried about this one. However what was written made sense and I think I got it ...most of the time. I think here although the hips are moving and turning left my bulk including my head is still behind the ball.

Really really tried to resist the urge to pull down my arms. When I didn't I could feel the arms being pulled down by the hips..cool!

Trying to retain the wrist break as far as possible.. this is difficult and something I need to work on. I feel like I'm losing the break too early. Some video will help here I think.

The result. It does work. I didn't gain much in yardage then again the air and balls are cold and they are range balls but the strike was very good and mostly straight and some with a draw. When it was right I felt I had struck the ball better than most times before and really felt a good downward strike with my 6 and 5 iron. It felt quite a powerful and compact swing

My weight moving to my left - the hips bit certainly helps avoid a fat - something I have been doing.

I hit some bad ones towards the end. Mainly through trying to hit the ball harder - with effort and arms and the wrist releasing too early. Bad shots were a couple of shanks and a couple of slices. There were probably 6 bad shots out of eighty odd so not bad. I got it right again for the last few

I tried a few with the driver. Not sure about this one. A few fades using the wrist break whereas I usually hit a draw. Might stick to current technique for now as I'm driving fairly well (cue kiss of death on that one)

Having read all the 3skill threads I'm fairly convinced the principles if not the techniques are the same. I wil buy the book. I also think this links nicely with the right wrist drill.

I had tonight some good solid straight shots with this technique. I don't think I was in the classic impact position as described in these threads but for the first outing trying something new I'm quite please.

Need to work on the takeaway, wrist break and shoulder turn (see my other post on that one)

Got a comp on Sat so a nit more practice and see if it holds up!

[Neil18]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Good to see you got some positive immediate feedback from it. I guess if it works, it works!

As it says in the text, don't be tempted to keep the bits that are comfortable and discard the rest. Eventually the uncomfortable will become the comfortable. It only feels weird (especially the grip and wrst break) because you're so used to doing it one way.

Driver is a hard club to hit with any swing change. I'd leave that in the bag for now and just practice with a 6 iron.

Good luck on Saturday!

[wicket94]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Back from the comp..but I don't think it fair to be too critical of any changes/results for now.

Reason 1. We had our presentation evening last night, one of the traditions is for prizewinners to fill their trophies with an alcholic substance fur all to sup. One supped too much! Saturday am feeling very much worse for wear!

Reason 2. It was a mixed turkey comp - greensomes. Whilst my driving wasn't great - 1 very dodgy, 2 iffish and the rest good - ok in terms of results, concentrating on different moves when our 100% didn't feel as solid as usual. However we took pretty much all my drives and so only played 1 x 6 iron shot and 1 x 9 iron shot all round. The rest was 2 x 3 woods and chips, so couldn't say whether irons have improved.

The 9 iron on a par 3 did though rend up 6 inches from the hole!

Conditions also didn't help - very vold and very windy (I play on top of the downs so always windy)

So jusgement reserved for now but I don't think I had it today

We came thirds by the way with 35 pints...I mean points. Winner was 37. rueing the wobbly missed putts but thats another story!

[BrianW]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Back from the comp..but I don't think it fair to be too critical of any changes/results for now.

Reason 1. We had our presentation evening last night, one of the traditions is for prizewinners to fill their trophies with an alcholic substance fur all to sup. One supped too much! Saturday am feeling very much worse for wear!

Reason 2. It was a mixed turkey comp - greensomes. Whilst my driving wasn't great - 1 very dodgy, 2 iffish and the rest good - ok in terms of results, concentrating on different moves when our 100% didn't feel as solid as usual. However we took pretty much all my drives and so only played 1 x 6 iron shot and 1 x 9 iron shot all round. The rest was 2 x 3 woods and chips, so couldn't say whether irons have improved.

The 9 iron on a par 3 did though rend up 6 inches from the hole!

Conditions also didn't help - very vold and very windy (I play on top of the downs so always windy)

So jusgement reserved for now but I don't think I had it today

We came thirds by the way with 35 pints...I mean points. Winner was 37. rueing the wobbly missed putts but thats another story!

Well done. Any changes take it bit of working on to settle down

[wicket94]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Well, my 3 skills book arrived on Friday.

I've been percevering with the magic moves and not sure they are for me. I know it's only been a couple of weeks but I just don't feel comfortable with them.

I suspect a great deal of this is having to think of positions eg takeaway, back swing, impact etc. Throughout my attempts to implement I had some success and had some good shots on the range. Transferring to the course, again had success but not consistent.

I think the main reason is I just don't feel comfortable. I'm sure if I continue to practice them it will get better but there are too many changes from my existing swing and I'm concerned about destroying my game.

However, what the text does do well is throw away certain myths and explain what I should be doing at impact etc. I have taken this out of the text.

I feel I have a reasonable swing. Plenty of faults and as I've said elsewhere it needs to improve, especially with the irons for me to move from my current 11 handicap to single figures. My goal for next year.

So will the 3 skills work for me...I think so.

What struck me about them is in reality the concept is so simple, the faults are recognisable, the explanations understandable.

I didn't have time to practice before saturdays thrash so no improvements to report there. It was left to the range on Sunday.

I have always known about the need to hit down, problem is I didn't really understand how and just let the club do the work. I now know how and was able to get it fairly quickly. What surprised me was having practiced it per the book, without thinking about swing mechanics or impact positions I was able to feel my hands ahead of the ball and for one getting some real solid shots.

Better still it worked throughout the bag. I could feel my hands in what felt like good positions and my weight going in the right direction. I didnt have to think about it, it happened as a result of trying to hit down.

Not all 100% solid connections but would say at least 90% which is good for me.

What I didnt master was the skill 2. I just couldnt get the ball to consistently go where the book suggests. They kept going straight down the target line or with a draw. I'll take that for now, better than a fade. Perhaps skill 3 is there in part already.

However this is just one range session and not course conditions so we'll have to see how it develops and how it works on the course. I do though like the simple approach so for now I'm positive.

A couple of questions though, particularly if you have a reasonble game already. How did you get on applying skills 2 and 3? Did you find you could quickly move on to skills 2 & 3? Did you apply skill 2 fully before bringing in skill 3 or did it all fall together fairly quickly?

Plenty of practice still required but at least I now know what to practice

[Neil18]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hey Wicket,

Glad to see you've got some positive stuff from 3 Skills.

Only two things I would like to say to you:

1) If you want to improve your game, you will have to endure a period of discomfort, regardless of the method you use to change. As I said before, keep going with it (3 skills or Joe Dante) until it doesn't feel uncomfortable. All change is uncomfortable. Endure it. You won't destroy your game, it'll just feel like it for a while! Over half the battle of change is having the balls to stick with it whilst it's screwing you up!

2) I will be very interested to see your feedback in 3 months time with regard to your improvement with 3 skills and whether, once you're used to it and you feel you've really improved close to the level you'd like, you can say that using the 3 skills has resulted in you doing some JD-like stuff.

I'd just like to see if this really is two completely different ways of explaining exactly the same thing.

Keep on it my man!

[wicket94]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hi Neil,

Yep completely agree with what you say. I know with the JD method there was a need to stick with feeling different. I've expericenced uncomfortable changes in the past, especially early on in my game development, stuck with them and improved. The same would be with the JD system. I think what worried me though is that I felt completely wrong even though I had good shots. I started to become confused I think as to what I was doing, it wasn't natural at the time. It's been a long time since I felt like that - scary!

I would add I certainly haven't given the JD system a fair crack at improving my game. As mentioned the text is very good, I like that but couldn't stick with the 4 moves.

As you say, time will tell. I hope to stick for now to the 3 skills methods as it's something I can easily relate to (despite my fondness for decent full theories). I now video my swing often so I'm interested to see if anything changes, especially around the impact area.

I have a swing from a couple of weeks ago as a reference point (before trying magic moves and just after an attempt to implement my coaches advice).

One thing I've learnt here is that there are so many different theories for the same outcome (I think I have most of the books to prove it!). Some work for some and not others. It's definately way too early to say for me the 3 skills work wonders - I may well be back here next week after a disastorous round or practice session. Hope not. But as you rightly point out to be subjective about a system the proof is in the pudding - 1 range session just about gets you a clean spoon!

I think I may well start a blog. At the very least it may well help me keep track of how it's gone over the next 2 or three months.

[JaySpin]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

I guess I'm reviving a rather old thread but I just found out about the "4 magic moves" about 9 months ago. I'm usually pretty skeptical of things pitched the way this method is, but tried it and for the most part-it works! I have gone from a 22.3 (where I have been stuck for 10 years) to a 15.2. Just a few observations though which I'd like to share and invite comment on from those who have tried this method:

1. This method advocates a very tight grip. I've found on the other hand, that a light grip helps me execute the early backward wrist break more consistently. Once in a while during a round, I find myself reverting to moving the club away using my arms first. It helps to remember to keep my elbows touching my body until the wrist break is completed.

2. I started driving the ball well almost immediately and hit terrific iron shots off a tee and a good lie. For several rounds however, I found that hitting off a tight lie caused problems when using the early wrist break. Don't know why, but I started hitting thin and right almost a s**nk whenever I got this lie. After much trial and error, found that by placing the ball very forward in my stance-even on short irons-I hit the ball quite well. Kind of the opposite from my instinctive response, which was to play the ball further back because of the thin contact. Don't know how or why this works.

3. The advice on the short game in the book quite frankly isn't helpful at all. Using the early backward wrist break on pitches and chips has been disastrous for me with very inconsistent contact. I have gone back to my old firm wristed, straight back and through method for hitting pitches and chips.

4. I have been using a reverse overlap grip (long story) in conjunction with this method and this has worked very well for me.

This method does not seem to be very compatible with other modes of instruction, so any insights or observations regarding this would be greatly appreciated.