i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

[ubizmo]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I have a suspicion that you are tending to hit on too shallow a path and are not always leading the clubface with your hands. I think you have used a video camera previously, try some very slow swings with some short and longer clubs and see where your hands are at impact, better still try and see where they were with a poorer shot.

Yes, this is a good next step. Something like this must be what's happening.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

You missed my point. I understand that if I'm hitting a thinned shot I'm not hitting down on the ball. That's not in doubt. The point was, I am hitting the leaf off the mat, despite hitting a thin shot, when I do the drill with an actual ball--at least a third of the time. This is what I'm calling a "false positive." I conjecture that it has something to do with the mats, but it's only a conjecture. In principle, if I'm hitting the leaf away I shouldn't be hitting thin. But for whatever reason, that's what's happening.

Tod,

Have you considered that it is possible to hit something in front of the ball when the shot is thinned, with a thinned shot the club can still slide forward and clip the leaf with it's sole. I have a suspicion that you are tending to hit on too shallow a path and are not always leading the clubface with your hands. I think you have used a video camera previously, try some very slow swings with some short and longer clubs and see where your hands are at impact, better still try and see where they were with a poorer shot.

[bill reed]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

hi
you keep talking about hitting downward on the ball but really you can't hit down on the ball, you can have the club-head swinging in a downward direction but it is also swinging in a forward direction and due to the loft on all clubs you always hit below the equator of the ball, if you really were hitting down on the ball you would hit the equator or above the ball and you would drive it into the ground. if you were driving a nail into the ball with say a 9 iron the the nail would be half way below the equator and pointing down about 45% to the ground and the loft of the club would drive the nail in upwards through the ball, not forwards like you would have a nail pointing out the back of the ball parallel with the ground.
with the driver the nail would be close to being parallel with the ground but your swing is more on the upswing then but still make contact just below the equator of the ball.
maybe your talking about swinging down but saying hitting down on the ball ???.
bill

[ubizmo]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I know we are not all the same and have differing perceptions on things but I find it hard to see the difficulty in understanding the theory of hitting down at a ball.

That's because there's no difficulty understanding it.

The book shows in detail how clubs need to be delofted with the hands ahead of the ball at impact with the lofted clubface hitting down into the core of the ball then swinging through into the ground just ahead of it.

Correct.

The pictures where the ball is held in the palm of the hand with the clubface held against the ball is something we all can do and illustrates perfectly that if the club is leaning back loft will be added and the leading edge will come into contact and thin it, a thinned shot is always caused by the leading edge hitting into the core of the ball and if you do that then you are not hitting down, period. It makes no difference if you are using a mat.

You missed my point. I understand that if I'm hitting a thinned shot I'm not hitting down on the ball. That's not in doubt. The point was, I am hitting the leaf off the mat, despite hitting a thin shot, when I do the drill with an actual ball--at least a third of the time. This is what I'm calling a "false positive." I conjecture that it has something to do with the mats, but it's only a conjecture. In principle, if I'm hitting the leaf away I shouldn't be hitting thin. But for whatever reason, that's what's happening.

Something else to consider is that even if you begin to make nice contact with the sweetspot, hit the ball at the right point in the swingpath and close the face through impact this will not in it's self give you a lower score. These 3 Skills are designed to make you a good striker of the ball which is ONE important aspect of good golf play, it will not make you read greens, select the right club, hit the right distance, read the weather conditions, play the ball into the best part of the fairway, conserve mental energy, get in the zone etc, etc, etc. These are other ingredients that you must come to terms with and not rely on 3 Skills to do for you.

No argument with any of that. But for me, lately especially, the biggest score-killer has been badly hit shots. On average, whatever par for the hole is, is the number of strokes it takes me to get on the green. If I manage to 2-putt, I therefore get a double bogey. Fortunately, my putting has improved (thanks to some helpful ideas from this site, I might add), so I'm not doing much 3-putting anymore. My chipping is better too, so I get a few 1-putts in the mix as well. But my full swing shots, which were not great to begin with, have definitely deteriorated since devoting myself to the three skills system. The only explanation I can think of is that I'm not at the point where I can afford not to think about what I'm doing with my body when I swing. If there's some other explanation, I'd be glad to know it.

If you can hit the sweetspot and bring the clubface into the ball on a nice inside arc you will hit the ball in the right direction no matter what happened before, if you can turn the clubface from open to closed through the impact zone you will increase the power of the shot without having to concern yourself with other complex swing thoughts.

I fully agree. The three key words are "if you can." And if you can't, then I think you need to try to find out why and attempt to do something about it.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Unbe-frigging-leaveable!

[Rackster]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

perhaps the production of a DVD in conjunction with the book would be og greater help

An excellent suggestion Slater.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Theoretically, if you're doing it right, when you switch to doing it with a ball you'll get good ball flight. This, however, is where I have encountered "false positives." That is, I'd hit the leaf but still hit the ball thin. I think this may be caused by using mats instead of turf, but I'm not certain. As you say, an instructor would no doubt be able to see what's happening.

I said I would retire from this thread but I cant sit back and ignore it.

I know we are not all the same and have differing perceptions on things but I find it hard to see the difficulty in understanding the theory of hitting down at a ball. The book shows in detail how clubs need to be delofted with the hands ahead of the ball at impact with the lofted clubface hitting down into the core of the ball then swinging through into the ground just ahead of it.

The pictures where the ball is held in the palm of the hand with the clubface held against the ball is something we all can do and illustrates perfectly that if the club is leaning back loft will be added and the leading edge will come into contact and thin it, a thinned shot is always caused by the leading edge hitting into the core of the ball and if you do that then you are not hitting down, period. It makes no difference if you are using a mat.

Something else to consider is that even if you begin to make nice contact with the sweetspot, hit the ball at the right point in the swingpath and close the face through impact this will not in it's self give you a lower score. These 3 Skills are designed to make you a good striker of the ball which is ONE important aspect of good golf play, it will not make you read greens, select the right club, hit the right distance, read the weather conditions, play the ball into the best part of the fairway, conserve mental energy, get in the zone etc, etc, etc. These are other ingredients that you must come to terms with and not rely on 3 Skills to do for you.

A point I have raised previously is that there is no new way to hit the golf ball, there is nothing magical, mystic, undiscovered or golden, there is a whole lot of myth and confusion put about though that ties people in knots trying to work out how to improve. Just watch those golfers standing over the ball letting all kinds of swing thoughts paralyse them followed by very ugly slashes and swipes that result in nothing but poor ball contact.

If you can hit the sweetspot and bring the clubface into the ball on a nice inside arc you will hit the ball in the right direction no matter what happened before, if you can turn the clubface from open to closed through the impact zone you will increase the power of the shot without having to concern yourself with other complex swing thoughts. As you become better, as most people will through practice, then you can gradually increase the speed of your swing to a point where you can maintain the skills at your own personal maximum speed. Your overall swing should also start to improve as it will be working effectively to deliver the club head solidly to the ball, which is what all effective swings do.

[slater170]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Hi Todd,

Sorry I did mention this before, similar to the nail and hammer in the book, you don't focus on the hammer just the nail, if you miss the nail the answer would be " I missed the nail", not I was swinging the hammer the wrong way.

I would love to have 30 minutes with you and see if I could help you with your game.........!!!

These 3skills...........If you stand with both feet together, half swing hip high to hip high back and through and then simply apply the 3 skills you should make a good contact....!!

It is a case of progressing from there, My personal opinion is that this could work for any golfer if given a lesson as appose to just the book.

Regards

Ian.

perhaps the production of a DVD in conjunction with the book would be og greater help

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Hi Todd,

Sorry I did mention this before, similar to the nail and hammer in the book, you don't focus on the hammer just the nail, if you miss the nail the answer would be " I missed the nail", not I was swinging the hammer the wrong way.

I would love to have 30 minutes with you and see if I could help you with your game.........!!!

These 3skills...........If you stand with both feet together, half swing hip high to hip high back and through and then simply apply the 3 skills you should make a good contact....!!

It is a case of progressing from there, My personal opinion is that this could work for any golfer if given a lesson as appose to just the book.

Regards

Ian.

[ubizmo]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Also if it is new to you I do not know how you are going to be sure if you have done this exercise OK.

Theoretically, if you're doing it right, when you switch to doing it with a ball you'll get good ball flight. This, however, is where I have encountered "false positives." That is, I'd hit the leaf but still hit the ball thin. I think this may be caused by using mats instead of turf, but I'm not certain. As you say, an instructor would no doubt be able to see what's happening.

[ubizmo]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Todd If I asked you to throw a stone into the pond............would you think about all the body movements involved in throwing the stone, grip, plane, turn top against bottom, release.............I don't thnik so, you would do it all instinctively.

Yes, you mentioned this before, and my answer is the same. Throwing a stone into a pond is something I already know how to do. There are no skills I need to acquire in order to do it. I can do it instinctively because I already have the instincts, i.e., the motor skills for throwing small objects at huge targets. Therefore it's a false analogy.

Let's try another analogy that involves throwing (of a sort). This time you ask me to bowl a cricket ball at a wicket. Having never held a cricket ball in my hands before, and never having attempted that distinctive overhead bowling action, that ball might go anywhere. To learn this skill, yes, I might indeed have to think about what I'm doing with my body. And to teach it to me you would probably have to instruct me on what to do with my body.

The way I see it, Joe Hagen's book has been helpful to a number of people here, and that's a good endorsement of its content. It hasn't been especially helpful for me, but I suspect that's because I'm not yet at the level where I can really take advantage of it. Again, I'm not arguing that golfers won't find useful material in the book. That is clearly false. I am claiming that no one should think that this book has all that anyone needs to know about ball striking. If that were so, my scores would be going down, not up, because I certainly have put a lot of time in practicing those drills. But on the whole, the book has had good results with the golfers of GTO. I don't think anyone had a stake in the claim that it would help every single one.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I have received my copy now. And very quickly too so good organisation there. The book is very well finished and nicely laid out. It is a credit to the writer and those involved. I can see a few snags with practising the skills though. The first one that shows is putting something in front of the tee. IE a leaf. Well at our driving range there are no leaves. So I thought perhaps a tiddlywink or the like. But if you succeed with the drill, this is going to shoot forwards. There is a line at our range and nobody is allowed to step over it. So, I can see a lot of tiddlywinks disappearing. So has anyone got any suggestions on that please. Also if it is new to you I do not know how you are going to be sure if you have done this exercise OK. That is where some have had the advantage of having an instructor there with them. I have not tried it yet so will post what happens but in the meantime any tips would be most welcome.
Brian

Brian,

Why not snap a few cornflakes or the like into leaf sized bits. You will know when you are doing it right when you hit the tee then the cornflake or ball cornflake.

[miffin]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I have received my copy now. And very quickly too so good organisation there. The book is very well finished and nicely laid out. It is a credit to the writer and those involved. I can see a few snags with practising the skills though. The first one that shows is putting something in front of the tee. IE a leaf. Well at our driving range there are no leaves. So I thought perhaps a tiddlywink or the like. But if you succeed with the drill, this is going to shoot forwards. There is a line at our range and nobody is allowed to step over it. So, I can see a lot of tiddlywinks disappearing. So has anyone got any suggestions on that please. Also if it is new to you I do not know how you are going to be sure if you have done this exercise OK. That is where some have had the advantage of having an instructor there with them. I have not tried it yet so will post what happens but in the meantime any tips would be most welcome.
Brian

[kevinhendrix]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Hey guys ,

My laptop had some faults the last couple of days so have not been able to come on.
Please, there is no need to get so heated .

This book is designed to help the millions of people who simply have no clue whatsoever how to hit a golf ball. Joe Hagan's quote about how the swing evolves from the player's pre-determined use of the club through impact to affect the desired ball flight says so much. This has helped my game incredibly due to its focus purely on the clubhead, contact and imagery.

I am not trying to sell the book to anyone but simply tell you guys how it is. You cannot argue with Joe's quote.

The whole world at the moment wants you to think about your swing in terms of what you are doing body wise.........and then hit the ball

Surely this has to work the other way around. You dont think about your foot when kicking a ball. Your foot moves in a certain manner due to how you want to pressure the football.
You dont think about your arm or body when playing tennis. You act and react due to how you want to pressure the tennis ball and do this by thinking of the racket head.

All this is done by combining the contact you wish to achieve at impact with the visualisation of where you want that ball to go. This is crucial. Millions of people are frozen over the ball when playing or practicing. I see it everyday. This is due to them having their minds polluted with so much technical swing information either given to them by conventional teaching or by them accessing the incredible amount of such information available to people online.

I hit a ball alright : ) but this has made me score a lot better. It focuses me on getting a ball around a golf course in as least number of strokes as possible. By concentrating on contact and imagery. If only I could putt (a arden boys)

Lets keep it friendly on here and everyone is welcome down to our demo day at the Hersham Village GC coming up soon. We'll post all the dates out as soon as its arranged.

Good and HAPPY golfing to you all,
Kevin McDonald PGA

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Guys,

What is going on here................For the record there is no commission and I am positive no-one is telling lies, this is simply the notes of a few that have purchased the book and feel it has been an instant benefit..............with the exception of Todd

Todd If I asked you to throw a stone into the pond............would you think about all the body movements involved in throwing the stone, grip, plane, turn top against bottom, release.............I don't thnik so, you would do it all instinctively.

I have just returned from the British Masters, I followed the winner Westwood, Monty, Sterne, Poulter and many more:

1) I pre-shot the same
2) I set-up the same
3) I use the same equipment
4) I swing on the similar plane
5) My ball position is the same
6) I use the same balls
7) I look stronger than a few, some are tall, some are short, fat and thin also..!!!

So I ask myself what is different It is there ball striking, it is so much more solid and powerfull.......?????


How is this achieved I ask myself...................3skills springs to mind.


Ian.