Are 4 magic moves magic?

[rotator]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hi Darth,

We missed you for a while. Welcome back.

If you read the recent couple of pages, you will see JaySpin and I have come up separately with the concept of standing closer to the ball as helping with solid strikes. I found this last year and just remembered it starting this year. It's funny how you kinda have to go through a re-learning curve in the Spring, when in the Fall I was hitting the ball so well. Then the cruel Winter hit (in this part of the world anyways).

I relate the idea of standing closer (and I also stand taller) over the ball likely influences the swing with the same results as you positioning the club heel up. I may be wrong, but that makes sense to me. I played this morning, and stood closer and more taller and there was a definite improvement on the quality of strike. You see, so far this year, the balls have always been straight or a draw, but I did not feel the solid contact I had when golf ended for me last year. Mind you, it's been as cold as heck and wet so far. I'm sure the ball striking will come back, as I get more games under my belt and it warms up.

Hi amsie,

In an earlier post I stressed the necessity for the shoulder generated backswing and downswing, with the arms going for the ride. Of course, there is the lateral hip shift to kick off the downswing. It's all really in 4MM fundamentals. We lose sight of these and then have doubts about the method. For instance, I mentioned I was having problems in thinking I was turning my shoulders, but it turns out I was lifting my arms to the top and disconnecting from my body.

In regard to your statement - "Incedentially, why is it that all the pros & most web pages seem to say that you shouldent slide to the left?",
I don't know if that is entirely correct. I believe most instructions promote the lateral shift of the lower body, (followed by the rotation of the hips, if hip rotation is what you're referring to as being promoted).

Ted

[amsie]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hi all,

Been a week or so since I last posted, time flies.

Just wanted to update really that the 4mm and some advice offered on here was very helpful, and although it did straighten out the shots, i've decided not to use this method for the time being, but Im confident that should things go wrong on the course, I can revert back to it (minus that wrist break).

I also think I've discovered finally whats been causing my hooking, when setting up for address, ive been putting my arms with inner elbows facing upwards, when taking away, my right arm has been turning inwards and hooking the club head.

I've been using another method (David Blair) which I find seems to hit the ball more solidly and comfortably than the 4mm, but the upwards elbows highlighted this to me. Turned my elbows so that the arms are natrally griping the club, and been hitting some great shots!

Thanks for the advice I've received on here, and I'll still be lurking around.

Regards

Paul

[rotator]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hi all,

Been a week or so since I last posted, time flies.

Just wanted to update really that the 4mm and some advice offered on here was very helpful, and although it did straighten out the shots, i've decided not to use this method for the time being, but Im confident that should things go wrong on the course, I can revert back to it (minus that wrist break).

I also think I've discovered finally whats been causing my hooking, when setting up for address, ive been putting my arms with inner elbows facing upwards, when taking away, my right arm has been turning inwards and hooking the club head.

I've been using another method (David Blair) which I find seems to hit the ball more solidly and comfortably than the 4mm, but the upwards elbows highlighted this to me. Turned my elbows so that the arms are natrally griping the club, and been hitting some great shots!

Thanks for the advice I've received on here, and I'll still be lurking around.

Regards

Paul

Hi Paul,

For whatever it means, I just wanted to comment on the inner elbow positioning. I think it's an individual thing. If one lets their arms hang down naturally at their sides, I believe everyone will have a different position of the inner elbows and the facing of the hands. In my case, my inner elbows are about 45 degrees open, while my hands are about 22 degrees closed (both measured from the front plane of the body. I have to really work hard to bring the elbows to point inward. I believe that the natural arm hang dictates how one sets up with the golf stance. I don't believe it really affects the golf swing, as the forearms will rotate irrespective of the elbow positioning. I do note that the outward position of the right elbow may allow the elbow to fold naturally to point downward to the hip.

An extreme case, if you are familiar with it is Tim Clark, whose inner elbows point outward 180 degrees at address.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

I learned the Joe Dante 4 MM method some years ago and used it for a time. After reading the posts here and the great advice given out By Ted (Rotator) on the method I decided to try it again this week after a short holiday.

Wow!! with my driver I hit every fairway in regulation and also long, my iron and fairway shots were also very good, I used the early wrist break on my pitches and lob shots all to great effect. I also concentrated on using good supination of my left wrist which enhanced ball compression.

I think I will be sticking with the 4 MM for some time. Thanks Ted

[rotator]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Brian,

It's great to hear that you are playing well.

The story, of course, is that JaySpin and I have concluded that with 4MM it helps if you are already well versed in the fundamentals. That definitely fits you.

I think that the early wrist break is so good because it's something that you get it over with, and then you don't have to worry about it anymore. I used to be very inconsistent in achieving a full wrist break by the conventional one piece takeaway; sometimes I would get it, most times I would be missing it. It also gets you on plane, without any conscious thoughts to achieve it.

You are also rotary, so the simple shoulder generated swing would be up your alley.

However, don't lose sight that a good swing action is only on loan, so it just depends on the duration.

Best regards,

Ted

[bdbl]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Wow!! with my driver I hit every fairway in regulation and also long, my iron and fairway shots were also very good.

Strewth Brian, I thought you did that anyway. Wouldn't have taken so much of your advice in the past if I realised you missed fairways and duffed your irons.

More to the point on the subject of 4MM, I know you are a bit of a student of various swings and try them out at different times to meet different circumstances but how the hell do you remember them all?

I find that with just the one swing (however you'd describe it ) to think about I still find not so much that bad habits creep in but that good habits slip away as I somehow forget some basic setup factor.

[Shankless]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

However, don't lose sight that a good swing action is only on loan, so it just depends on the duration.

This is the bane of all golfers. This is why we constantly doubt ourselves, our method and continue looking for a different silver bullet. When I first read and started using the 4MM after a 6 month layoff I couldn't believe how accurate and long my drives were. I am struggling again and wish I had someone who teaches or is well versed in 4MM that could guide me.

I find it very difficult keeping the hands passive while gripping the club as firmly as the author recommends. One of many flaws in my swing. I guess if it was easy everyone would be a scratch golfer. Sorry for the rant.

[BrianW]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Strewth Brian, I thought you did that anyway. Wouldn't have taken so much of your advice in the past if I realised you missed fairways and duffed your irons.

More to the point on the subject of 4MM, I know you are a bit of a student of various swings and try them out at different times to meet different circumstances but how the hell do you remember them all?

I find that with just the one swing (however you'd describe it ) to think about I still find not so much that bad habits creep in but that good habits slip away as I somehow forget some basic setup factor.

OK Robin, you have me sussed: I did miss two GIR's and one FIR last year and decided I should work on improving this year

Regarding the memory bit, the basics are similar with any of these swings: You have to keep the club on plane, you have to swing from the inside, you have to compress the ball well. Come to think of it I am getting a 3-skills 'ism coming on again

Played today in my first medal comp this year and thoroughly enjoyed it, played 8 over gross and this was with at least 5 lip outs. Putting was good and I did take something from you on the course with me today You mentioned recently that it was important to have the conviction that you could sink every putt, I used this to good effect. Thanks coach

[JaySpin]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

This is the bane of all golfers. This is why we constantly doubt ourselves, our method and continue looking for a different silver bullet. When I first read and started using the 4MM after a 6 month layoff I couldn't believe how accurate and long my drives were. I am struggling again and wish I had someone who teaches or is well versed in 4MM that could guide me.

I find it very difficult keeping the hands passive while gripping the club as firmly as the author recommends. One of many flaws in my swing. I guess if it was easy everyone would be a scratch golfer. Sorry for the rant.

I have found and Rotator/Ted agrees that using a light grip is actually better for 4MM. While I am grateful to have stumbled upon the Joe Dante method, one of it's drawbacks is the lack of much help availbale-even online. Why is there not a single video showing the 4MM swing in all it's glory out there by Andy Brown or any of his dozens of testimonials on youtube? There will be no help on this method from any PGA pros. The best you can do is on this very site-particularly Ted's advice.

One thing I firmly believe is that while using the 4MM basics, you must modify it somewhat to suit your swing. I like to think of Jimmy Ballard's advice on keeping the elbows in and down on the swing as my 5th magic move.

This works great for me in combination with 4MM.

[rotator]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

I do agree with JaySpin about the passive arms and hands. I was going to comment on that point. When I was initially feeling my way through the 4MM instructions, I was not comfortable with the idea of the arms and hands being tense and locked. I figured if the swing was truly to be a shoulder/ torso rotation generated swing, the arms have to be like ropes, and the hands also have to be passive to be able to release naturally from rotation and centrifugal action and not by a forced hit. The hands should then be able to swing on plane before and through the impact zone (ideally this will be a zone of at least 6" before and 6" after impact) naturally.

One tip from a pro, which opened my eyes on this, was that if you want to get a ball out of the regular rough, you do not take a tight grip, which will slow the speed. In fact, you take a light grip, which will give you more speed and the ball will go farther. I suppose if you are in 2 feet high fescue, you will have to take a tighter grip to hack the ball out at all.

In earlier discussions, it was observed that everyone has their own nuances, so everyone has their own hybrid 4MM swing.

Ted

[Shankless]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

As always Ted, thank you for your insightful response. Golf, she is a cruel mistress.

[biglol]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hi all

I gave the wrist break move of this method a try today on the practice ground. I'm a decent player, 7 handicap but i've been struggling for a fair while now to find the slot at the top. This has caused me a lot of grief and made me become wrist concious, which is disastrous really.

I started out practising and was hitting it pretty average and getting frustrated, then i remembered reading this thread and decided to give it a go.

The results were astounding to be honest. I'm not breaking my wrists in the manner described straight away in the swing, but as part of the takeaway which felt smoother, probably after the clubhead has moved 18 inches or so.

Right away the club dropped straight in to the slot at the top, giving me that feeling i could unwind as fast as i like (within reason) and producing a full release of the clubhead through impact through to a full finish, which is something i've not been able to do for ages particularly the release.

The ball really flew, and i mean flew. It was such a good feeling i was laughing out loud. I still hit some dodgy shots, but the misses were much better and the well timed strikes were as good as i've ever hit it. I started with a wedge, then a 7 iron, then i lost a few balls in the hedge at the bottom of the practce ground after using my driver which doesnt happen often. I was out there for three hours in the end it was so much fun.

I'm playing in a comp tomorrow and i'm going to try and use the move on the course, although i'll definately need more practice at it i cant wait to give it a try out there.

[wiko]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

hi interesting post on joe dante, book tried this move seems to bring move fluidity to the swing....will try the your excellent advice on wrist brake further through the swing could you expand on your first post..many thanks

[catsass]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hey All,I am new here and have found your thread on Joe Dante.I have used the 4MM method for over a year,my ball striking has never been better,till this year. I have started pulling everything left hard or have hooked everything off the planet.I have reread the book again,but I cannot get the feeling back that I had last year with this swing method,Can anybody Help?

[rotator]

Re: Are 4 magic moves magic?

Hi catsass,

You may be lifting your arms up, instead of using your shoulders to rotate your shoulders and torso around your spine, and taking the arms back on plane. You may think you are turning your shoulders, because the shoulder comes under your chin, but you may find that you are getting there by lifting the arms (basically above your head). If you do that with the early wrist break, the face will be severely closed at the top. Also, from the top of backswing position as above, you will surely come into the ball with an outside to in swing. Depending on the face being square or closing with the out to in path, you will dead pull or hook.

Ted